Fisheries Committee on Sept. 27th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I now call this meeting to order. Good afternoon.

Welcome to meeting number 32 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application.

For those participating virtually, I'd like to outline a few rules to follow.

You may speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available.

I think it's only members attending via Zoom, so I think they know how to use the Zoom features, so I won't go too much into that.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are here via video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. For those in the room, your mike will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer.

I will remind you that all comments by members should be addressed through the chair. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly, and when you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and a motion adopted by the committee on January 20, 2022, the committee is commencing its study on North Atlantic right whales.

With us today are witnesses from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans: Mr. Adam Burns, acting assistant deputy minister, fisheries and harbour management, and of course no stranger to the committee; and Brett Gilchrist, director, national programs, fisheries and harbour management.

Thank you for taking time to appear. You have five minutes for an opening statement when you're ready.

I would also like to welcome Mr. Bezan by Zoom; he's a new member to the committee. As well, I'd like to welcome Mr. Drouin, who is joining us in person as a substitute today.

Again, five minutes are yours.

[Adam Burns, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Hello to members of the committee.

First, I should take a moment to acknowledge the very difficult situation in Atlantic Canada resulting from hurricane Fiona. The department is working diligently to respond to this crisis as quickly as possible.

As for today's topic, all whale species in Canada, including North Atlantic right whales, face threats directly attributable to human activity.

In Canada, 19 whale populations are now listed under the Species at Risk Act, of which eight are assessed as endangered.

Species like North Atlantic right whales and others listed under the Species at Risk Act face a complex and interrelated mix of threats from human activities that affect their survival and recovery. These threats include entanglement in fishing gear, disturbance from and interaction with vessels, and decreased prey availability.

Threats are becoming even more acute as a result of climate change and its impact on ocean ecosystems and whale distribution. As committee members will know, North Atlantic right whales have shifted their late spring and summer foraging grounds to the Gulf of St. Lawrence, where they face a greater risk of vessel strike and entanglement in fishing gear.

Over the past several years, Fisheries and Oceans Canada, Transport Canada, Environment and Climate Change Canada and Parks Canada have worked together to make targeted investments to address immediate threats facing North Atlantic right whales and other endangered whale species, including $167.4 million under the whales initiative announced in budget 2018.

The whales initiative was the the first targeted national whale fund to protect key species. It was further supported by additional funds found in the oceans protection plan and the nature legacy initiative. These investments started a shift in the way fisheries operate, with a focus on innovative tools that protect North Atlantic right whales and other species, while also demonstrating the role of fisheries in a blue economy and Canada’s leadership in sustainable seafood.

The North Atlantic right whale population is in decline and is estimated at approximately 336 animals. Over the past several years, Fisheries and Oceans Canada has been working with harvesters to implement a range of measures to halt the decline of this species and in turn allow our important fisheries and fishing communities to coexist with them. Our priority is to support the recovery of this population by preventing entanglements.

To do this, we've implemented changes to the seasonal open and close dates of fisheries to avoid interactions with right whales. This includes targeted icebreaking operations in the Gulf of St. Lawrence to help harvesters get out on the water as early in the spring as possible. We've also implemented one of the world’s most advanced and near-real-time area closure programs to remove fishing gear, such as lobster and snow crab gear, where and when right whales are detected in Atlantic Canada and Quebec. This includes temporary and season-long fishing area closures. These measures are supported by a comprehensive monitoring regime to detect the presence of whales in our waters, including flights, vessels and acoustic monitoring.

To reduce the threat of serious injury in the event that a whale is entangled, the department is working with the fishing industry and partners in Atlantic Canada and Quebec to develop whalesafe fishing gear. This includes systems that fish without vertical lines, which prevents whales from becoming entangled in the gear, as well as other innovations that incorporate low-breaking-strength links. These links are designed to fish under normal conditions, yet break if a large whale should become entangled. Trials of such gear have been under way over the past few years. The department’s $20-million whalesafe gear adoption fund is providing support to nearly three dozen projects this year. The expertise developed by harvesters and experts under the whalesafe gear adoption fund has been central to the development of our approach to implement requirements for whalesafe gear in commercial fisheries. An implementation is beginning in 2023, focusing on protecting whales, respecting the operational realities of the fishing industry and ensuring the safety of harvesters.

Also, since 2019 the department, through its ghost gear fund, has invested $16.7 million through contribution agreements to assist indigenous groups, fish harvesters, the aquaculture industry, non-government organizations and communities to take concrete action in the fight against ghost gear. Through budget 2022, the ghost gear fund received $10 million to continue retrieval activities, support responsible disposal and pilot new technology to reduce ghost gear.

The fishing gear reporting system was developed and launched in 2021. It allows commercial harvesters to conveniently input a description of their lost gear and its location from any online device. Canada just recently became the first country in the world to share its lost and retrieved gear reporting data through the Global Ghost Gear Initiative’s global data portal, which is the world’s largest freely available repository of ghost gear data. This again showcases Canada as a world leader in conservation strategies.

The government also continues to build the marine mammal response program, which aims to assist marine mammals, including North Atlantic right whales and sea turtles in distress. In collaboration with conservation groups and non-governmental organizations, the department supports marine mammal incident response networks in all regions through this program.

Our investments in the marine mammal response program include $4.5 million in contributions to build capacity for safe and effective marine mammal response across Canada, as well as $1 million annually in operational support for our response partners.

With our ongoing and regular engagement of harvesters, industry groups, right whale experts, our counterparts in the United States and others, we've seen positive signs. For example, there have been no reported North Atlantic right whale mortalities in Canadian waters over the past three years. At the same time, there have been new right whale entanglements identified in both Canadian and U.S. waters, including four new entanglements first observed in Canadian waters this year. I should note that until a full investigation is conducted by the department of the gear when it is retrieved, the origin of the gear cannot be determined and could therefore be of Canadian or American origin.

Fisheries management will continue to evolve and adapt to protect and conserve North Atlantic right whale populations, as well as other populations that are at risk. Recent analysis by one of our research partners, the Canadian Wildlife Federation, has estimated that our temporary closures to protect right whales have reduced the threat of entanglement by about 65% for the southern gulf snow crab fishery alone. Adding this to other measures we have implemented in this fishery, including the retrieval of lost and abandoned fishing gear, further reduces the risk of entanglement of right whales by about 82%.

Our world-class adaptive management measures, which incorporate the best available science, are developed through close collaboration between our department, the fishing industry, indigenous communities and leading scientists to protect and rebuild the endangered whale populations while upholding Canada's reputation for sustainably sourced seafood.

We recognize there's more work to be done and that it's not easy. We need to recognize the significant work and innovation that has happened to date to protect right whales by our fishing industry.

At the same time, we will only see long-term recovery of the population when there are no entanglements or deaths over multiple years. The strength in Canada's strategy to protect right whales is in our ability to adapt and evolve based on science through working with harvesters and experts.

I'm happy to take your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Burns. That was a little bit over, but I wanted to make sure you got your statement on the record.

We'll now go to our rounds of questioning. Before I recognize the first questioner, I will say we will be going in camera for the last 30 minutes and will need time to switch over and do some committee business after that.

We'll now go to Mr. Perkins for six minutes or less, please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for coming on what is relatively short notice in our determination to do this important study.

Can the witnesses—and I'll just say “the witnesses” because I'm not sure whom to direct this to—tell me how many right whales in the Gulf of St. Lawrence or off of Nova Scotia have been entangled in lobster gear since 2017?

[Adam Burns]

Thanks for the question.

We have not identified any entanglements resulting from lobster gear.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you. How many in crab gear?

[Adam Burns]

I have the data....

Brett, do you have the total number?

[Brett Gilchrist, Director, National Programs, Fisheries and Harbour Management, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Entanglements, when they do occur, require an investigation to determine what the origin of the fishing gear is. We are adamant that unless that investigation is conclusive, we believe that it can't be identified or linked to a particular gear type.

Snow crab fisheries have been linked to one entanglement formally, which was last year with right whale number 4615. It was snow crab gear.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'll go on to my next question while you search for the numbers, or is that the number?

[Adam Burns]

It's a question of how many entanglements we've observed in Canadian waters versus how many we've conclusively determined to be of Canadian origin. Those would be two different numbers.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I do appreciate the evolution of the policy so that we have this moving transit zone prohibition that doesn't completely close the fishing season, and we do support that policy, but in the summer when you rightly closed the Bay of Fundy near Tiverton when there was a sighting, the policy announcement said that all commercial fishing gear—lobster, fixed line—should be removed, except indigenous gear.

Can you indicate to me how a right whale knows not to get itself entangled in indigenous fishing gear but is exposed to being entangled in commercial gear?

[Adam Burns]

That was specifically related to food, social and ceremonial activities. Regional colleagues are currently working with indigenous communities in the Bay of Fundy to ensure—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Food, social and ceremonial fishery, under law, cannot be done if there is a conservation measure being put in place. The department put in a conservation measure to protect the right whales but still allowed food and ceremonial fishery as an exposed risk for right whales.

[Adam Burns]

Regional colleagues are currently—well, not at this moment—actively working with indigenous communities in the Bay of Fundy on this issue.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It doesn't help the commercial fishers who were told to stay off the water while indigenous fishers were exposing the right whales.

I will move on to my next question.

I understand that you have had one instance over four or five years that you can confirm of crab gear being entangled.

Your former colleague in DFO, Allan Billard, lives in my riding. He's been a DFO scientist for over 30 years on whale science. He has written that right whales fall asleep quite often. That's part of their habit. They fall asleep, and they float when they do.

In determining the ship strikes that you've claimed are the reason for the deaths, are the scientists aware that right whales sleep on the top of the water?

[Adam Burns]

In terms of our specific numbers and the accounting in terms of identifying blunt force trauma as the source of mortality, that would only have been made following examination of a carcass. We would have, in that process, confirmed that the animal in question is indeed dead.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

One of the right whales that was examined several years ago, in the year when 12 right whales died over two years, I think had lived for 40 years and had evidence of numerous ship strikes. I'm wondering why, in some cases, the necropsy shows ship strikes that didn't kill them and supposedly, somehow, further determination is that ship strikes did kill them. They also do follow their food path up into the Labrador Strait. They do get frozen in the ice when they can't surface.

How do you determine, when a whale dies, whether it was one that already had multiple collisions or one that had basically died by being frozen into the ice?

[Adam Burns]

The necropsies are conducted, when it's feasible, when the animal is able to be brought to shore to be necropsied in a location that's safe. Those necropsies are conducted by veterinarians. Those are professional, trained, scientific opinions of the cause of mortality, which is intended to identify the specific cause of death. In the case of those animals from 2017, many were undetermined in terms of the specific cause of death. In other cases, there was some, for example, suspected blunt force trauma.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Perkins.

We'll now go to Mr. Cormier for six minutes or less, please.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wish I could have been with you in person today for the start of this study, but I'm glad you're all here.

I, too, want to take a few minutes to say hello to my colleagues in the Atlantic region and Quebec who have been affected by the hurricane. Our hearts go out to them. I myself come from the Atlantic region and we were lucky in my riding, because the hurricane passed us right by. Again, our hearts go out to you.

Mr. Burns and Mr. Gilchrist, I thank you for being with us today. I have many questions, and please feel free to answer them in English or French.

As you know, right whales have been a part of my landscape since 2017. In my riding, there is a large fleet of crabbers and lobster boats. In the last few weeks, several environmental groups, one from the United States in particular, have said that our measures regarding right whales are not adequate and they were recommending outright that people no longer buy crab, lobster and other fish, I believe, from our regions.

What do you tell your fellow U.S. officials or even environmental groups about the measures we have put in place since 2017?

What are your communication channels? How do you explain to everyone how forward-thinking we are, both in government and across industry, and that we've been doubling down to put measures in place for years?

[Adam Burns]

Thank you. I will respond to this one in English just so that I get it clearly stated.

We work very closely with colleagues in the U.S., as well as with various environmental groups, to make sure that Canada's measures are clearly understood. We continue to do that both here in Canada and in the United States. In particular, the consulate in Boston and the consul general there are actively involved as well, reaching out to Congress and to the U.S. Senate to make sure we are doing everything we can to ensure that our measures are well understood.

When it comes to the Monterey Bay Aquarium Seafood Watch findings recently, Canada worked to ensure that they had the necessary information to make a fair and balanced assessment of Canada's management regime. Unfortunately, we do not believe that they took all of that into consideration in their findings, and they did not recognize the differences between Canada's regime and that of the U.S.

However, we continue to reach out to all of those organizations to ensure that the great work that the Canadian industry—and, indeed, Canada—has done to protect North Atlantic right whales in Canada is well understood by those groups.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you for that reply.

Since 2017, I have been working very closely with stakeholders in my area, including fisheries and environmental groups. A lot of great work has been done since 2017 and there is also a better understanding of the migration of the right whale, which is increasingly present in our regions and has had a huge impact on the way our fisheries work. The model that we had for many years has been shaken from all sides, and many people have had to adapt.

In your opinion, are the measures that we currently have and have been implementing since 2017 superior to those currently implemented in the United States to protect right whales?

Are we still behind the measures that are in place in the United States for the protection of whales?

[Adam Burns]

I am not a scientific expert who can analyze the American measures, but I can tell you that the Canadian measures meet world standards and are exceptionally good.

However, I can say that, for example, The Pew Charitable Trusts, a U.S. ENGO, in 2021, I believe, when Canada announced its measures, did note that the U.S. measures could benefit from trying to mirror some of the measures put in place in Canada. I can point that out, but I wouldn't want to be evaluating those measures myself.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you.

If I'm not mistaken, we've been trying to do several things since 2017. The first one is certainly to protect right whales and make sure that there are no more deaths or at least as few as possible.

The second thing we are trying to do, and we are trying harder every day and every year, is to make sure that our measures are in line with or, rather, on a par with what the Americans would like us to adopt.

Am I wrong in saying that?

[Adam Burns]

The member is referring to the U.S. Marine Mammal Protection Act, which requires that any country that exports seafood products to the U.S. demonstrate comparability to the protections in place in the United States to protect marine mammals. It's not specific to North Atlantic right whales, but in the case of snow crab and lobster, the U.S. has identified them as the key risk to North Atlantic right whales, and while we don't have to have the same measures in place, we do need to have measures that have a comparable outcome in terms of protecting North Atlantic right whales.

That is the basis of some of the numbers I made reference to in my opening remarks. In the case of the gulf snow crab fishery, we've reduced the risk of entanglement by at least 82%. That's based on some modelling that certainly has its own limitations, but it's what the U.S. looks at, among other things, in determining that comparability.

Indeed, the statement that one of the drivers for the protections we've put in place is the U.S. Marine Mammal Protection Act is absolutely true.