Fisheries Committee on Sept. 27th, 2022

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Good. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thanks, Mr. Arnold.

To finish this off this line of questioning today, Mr. Cormier, go ahead for five minutes or less, please.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the people in the industry, the fishing groups, and all the fishermen who are listening to us right now for making superhuman efforts over the last few years to ensure the protection of whales.

I should point out that not all environmental groups are against the measures we have taken. There are a number of environmental groups in my area that are working hand in hand with the industry. We will probably have a chance to hear from them in committee. They are doing a great job.

I think everyone understands that we have to work together. Fishermen are certainly part of the solution in this regard. They can help us protect the whales, have responsible fisheries and ensure that we can continue to practise this wonderful trade in the years to come.

Mr. Burns or Mr. Gilchrist, I don't want to go back to those measures or tools that we use—we're certainly going to come back to that at some point—but one thing that will be problematic in the near future is, as you said, that we're using traps with no ropes now. It's a great tool that we have still in development. There are still some hiccups here and there, but I think we're going to get there.

However, there's the weak-rope policy that we want to put in place for the next season. I think you know—and I hope you know—that there are some groups that are testing those ropes, and almost everybody said that we're not ready for those ropes. We're not ready to use those ropes. If we use these ropes, they're going to break and we're going to have more ropes in the water. Where are you at with this situation right now?

My point of view, and the point of view of the industry and also of the environmental groups, is that we should put a pause on that and make sure we have good ropes that will not break, instead of having something that will maybe present some more entanglement and damage, and then we'll see more of what we're seeing coming from the U.S. saying that we don't have good measures in place.

What are you hearing on that, and what are your thoughts on that?

[Adam Burns]

Certainly as far as having an informed decision on the approach to implementing a whalesafe gear program and requirements goes, that is the reason we've been working with industry. We've had almost 100 engagement sessions with the fishing industry. We've funded various research initiatives—weak-rope initiatives, ropeless-gear initiatives and that sort of thing—and certainly all of that information is what we're currently assessing and looking at.

There's no doubt, though, that despite our massive surveillance program, we don't know where each whale is at all times, and certainly that is good reason to make sure that the gear that is in the water is as safe as possible for North Atlantic right whales. As we mentioned, the potential biological removal identified by the U.S. is less than one. We do need to look at these measures, and we'll do so in a manner that is informed by all of the work that we've been doing in recent years with industry so that we can limit the level of unintended consequences.

Certainly we've heard things about the risks of ghost gear and that sort of thing. We are acutely aware of that, and we are assessing all of that information.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you for that.

A little bit earlier, I was glad that I heard you say—and I don't want to quote you incorrectly—that we're maybe going to look at softening the measures for next year. I think there's a possibility that we could do that without compromising any of the measures we've put in place so far and without more deaths or entanglements, and we'd be helping the industry and some communities at the same time.

What are you seeing, as of now, in terms of changes to some of those measures? For example, we just talked about using those same tools to reopen some zones. Maybe instead of having one whale in a particular spot, maybe we can have two or three whales. I know the industry is proposing that to you. I know also that some environmental groups are proposing that to you. When all those zones close, I think you know how chaotic it is sometimes. Everybody has to remove their traps, and they're fishing in the same place, so it may be more dangerous for entanglement. What are you seeing in terms of some of those measures that we can soften and still, I think, be complying or still be viewed as a country that wants to protect right whales and at the same time wants to have a responsible fishery?

[Adam Burns]

In terms of softening measures, I think, hopefully, that what I said was more in the line of modifying measures—

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

That's good for me.

[Adam Burns]

—keeping in mind the need to maintain the level of protection for the North Atlantic right whales.

I wouldn't want to prejudge the process. Each year we go through a process of evaluating what worked, what didn't work, and what measures we might be able to adjust to better respond to industry observations and comments. That process will be undertaken again this fall.

We will be holding our North Atlantic right whale advisory committee later this fall. It is one of the multiple touchpoints with the fishing industry, where they have the opportunity to speak with us about—as I say—what's worked and what could work better. We will do that, and we will assess all of that information. As has been the case for the past several years, the minister will make her determinations around what the appropriate measures would be for next year, following the analysis of all of that information.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

Of course, as previously mentioned, we will end this particular meeting to take time to go in camera.

I want to say a special thank you to Mr. Burns and Mr. Gilchrist for their appearance here today. It's great knowledge for the start of this particular study.

Go ahead, Mr. Morrissey.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

There's an item I'd like to bring up when the witnesses are cleared.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Yes, we can do that in committee business, if you like, if it has to do with the committee.

We'll suspend now for a few minutes to go in camera. When the clerk tells me it's good to go, then we'll start up again.

The meeting is suspended.

[Proceedings continue in camera]