Fisheries Committee on Oct. 7th, 2022

[Dr. Arran McPherson]

Yes, it was.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Also, there were issues raised about DFO's ability to do survey studies. I've been told that one out of six have not been done in a timely manner.

Could you confirm to the committee that the DFO stock capacity studies are being done on a regular basis to support the veracity of the data going into the modelling that is ultimately used to make decisions?

[Dr. Arran McPherson]

What I can say in response to that question, is that we're very fortunate to have two new fisheries Coast Guard vessels on the east coast and one on the west coast—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Just a moment, Dr. McPherson. My question was, can you confirm if all studies are being done on the east coast in a timely manner, the stock capacity surveys?

[Dr. Arran McPherson]

What I was attempting to answer is that we are right now undertaking work to comparatively trawl on the east coast, which means that we are using both the old and new vessels side by side to be able to ensure the continuity of the data series. We're still doing that. In fact, that's taking place in Newfoundland as we speak—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Dr. McPherson, I've been told by a different witness who appeared before us here, and in meetings, that DFO's stock assessments are not keeping pace with what the department has mandated. In fact, a lot have been missed over the past years. Is that correct or not correct?

[Dr. Arran McPherson]

I'll just maybe add the precision that I interpret the question to mean “surveys” as opposed to “stock assessments”, but maybe—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I'm sorry. Yes, stock assessment surveys is what—

[Dr. Arran McPherson]

Okay. Perfect.

I would say that we have had difficulties and challenges since the beginning of the pandemic as we transitioned to new vessels. However, we are fully committed to undertaking those surveys—with the support of our Coast Guard colleagues—as frequently as we possibly can to ensure the continuity of our time series.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Dr. McPherson, could you provide to the committee a staff profile—without giving individual names—of the science division, the division that you head in DFO and its capacity over the past 10 years? I would like it if you could produce that in numbers—the various positions that are within this key part of DFO. I'd like to see a profile for the past 10 years.

[Dr. Arran McPherson]

I certainly can't speak to that going back 10 years here today, but that is information that we would be able to share with the committee if requested.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Okay.

We had a retired DFO manager who appeared earlier at committee. I'm not sure if you heard this or not, but he mentioned that many decisions on stock are made without the data to support those decisions. Would you care to comment?

[Dr. Arran McPherson]

I think my colleague actually would like to comment.

[Adam Burns]

Thanks for the question.

What I would say is that all of the decisions that are taken are informed by the best available science.

Managing a large operation is about making trade-off decisions and priorities, so it isn't always science that is fresh off the press in some instances—it's science that has been done prior to that year—but we always base our decisions on the best available science as well as the views of indigenous communities, stakeholders and others with an interest in the fishery. All of that is what's used to inform the management decisions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.

We'll go to Madame Bérubé for two and a half minutes, please.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Murdoch, last May, Dr. Dominique Robert, professor and Canada Research Chair in Fisheries Ecology at the University of Quebec at Rimouski, stated that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans was unable to conduct comprehensive population surveys for certain fish stocks.

Does the department have enough research vessels to conduct population surveys of fish stocks?

[Sarah Murdoch]

Respectfully, I think that question is probably better directed to either Dr. McPherson or, if it's regarding west coast fisheries, Rebecca Reid.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

All right.

[Dr. Arran McPherson]

Perhaps I'll start.

Rebecca, if you would like to add or complement anything I've said, please go ahead.

We have three dedicated fisheries vessels with the Canadian Coast Guard that have been just recently transitioned into service. As I mentioned a few moments ago, we're very excited about the opportunity to have those new vessels.

In addition to those, we use platforms provided by industry in all parts of Canada to leverage the partnerships that exist with a number of industry groups to collect data. When you think about the science that is being generated to inform decision-making at DFO, it is not solely science that's collected on Coast Guard platforms. It's science that's also collected using partnerships with industry and others.

Rebecca, I'm not sure if you have anything to add.

[Rebecca Reid]

I would just add that in cases where we have had trouble with vessel availability, we have also set up standing offers and contracts for the use of other vessels when needed so that we can maintain our important stock assessment surveys. Thank you.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

I see.

How does the department's science capacity impact the science consultation process?

[Dr. Arran McPherson]

Maybe I'll start, and then Adam may want to add something about consultation.

I'll start by clarifying that in DFO's science sector, we undertake evidence-based peer review and we aren't responsible for consultations on actual management decision-making with any of our partners, clients or indigenous communities. That responsibility rests with the management components and parts of our organization. We undertake discussions to come to scientific conclusions, whereas they lead our consultations with external parties.

[Adam Burns]

I don't have much to add.

Before the minister makes a decision, we hold a consultation with the various stakeholders, commercial fishers, indigenous groups, environmental groups and the provinces. These stakeholders inform us of other factors to consider and how they interpret the scientific advice. This allows us to provide advice to the minister so that she can make an informed decision.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

You talk about indigenous communities...

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Bérubé. You've gone a little over your two and a half minutes. You can't get much in within two and a half minutes.

Ms. Barron will now do her best to get everything in within two and a half minutes, I'm sure.