Fisheries Committee on Oct. 18th, 2022

[Michael Barron]

Excuse me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Did somebody say excuse me?

[Michael Barron]

I'm sorry about that, Mr. Chair.

I just wanted to add something to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I'd ask you to send it in writing. We've gone over the time allotted to Mr. Perkins for questions and answers.

We'll now go to Mr. Morrissey, for six minutes or less, please.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

My questions are for Ms. Giffin.

Ms. Giffin, could you outline to the committee any protocols that were in place this year by DFO on the gulf that, in your opinion, are redundant and that you would be comfortable removing and it would have no negative impact on potential U.S. retaliation?

[Melanie Giffin]

I would point again to the exclusion lines. Actually, it wasn't mandatory this year for weak links.

Off the top of my head, I don't have one. If I think of one later I'll send it in. My apologies.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you.

Nothing that took place this spring was redundant, in your opinion.

My next question would be this. Has the catch of lobster or crab been negatively impacted? Have the catches gone down since the narwhal protection measures have been put in place?

Ms. Giffin.

[Melanie Giffin]

In my opinion, not that I am aware of due to the management measures for lobster. There were major challenges this year with the snow crab fishery. It is a quota fishery and not competitive. Because the whales were circling more looking for food this year, it did create longer and much larger seasonal closures. This actually boxed the island snow crab fishers out of their normal fishing grounds as well. They struggled to catch their quota this year.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

The quota...?

[Melanie Giffin]

Yes, for snow crab.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Okay. Thank you.

We've heard about the impact of some of the measures from a cost factor. Has the PEIFA with other groups done any analysis of the financial impact if we were restricted in the U.S. market for lobster and crab?

[Melanie Giffin]

Not that I am personally aware of. I believe the Lobster Council may be working on items such as that. The PEIFA has not been working on those.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Ms. Giffin, you're somebody that I view with a lot of credibility on your scientific approach and your biology background.

We've heard from a number of presenters about the shortcomings of some of the protocols that DFO is considering and looking at. If you don't have it today, could you advise the committee in writing on what, in your opinion, would be measures that could be put in place that would protect the North Atlantic right whale and allow the fishers to put in place those practices?

Because we've not heard a lot on possible solutions.... We've had a lot of questioning of some of the protocols that were being considered, like breakaway rope and retrievable buoys, but we have not heard—that I recall—much evidence given or testimony on solutions that you would view as workable.

Could you comment?

[Melanie Giffin]

I can, yes. Thank you.

The key one is the one that we put in our opening statement from the PEIFA, and it's related to P.E.I. fishers only because, as has been pointed out numerous times, what works in one area won't work in another. Because P.E.I. has a shallow fishery compared to other areas, an exclusion zone for those weak links would be a major help for P.E.I. in terms of the economic—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Melanie, could you expand? I don't quite understand. Could you expand on the exclusion zone?

[Melanie Giffin]

Yes, absolutely. If DFO set it at, say, 10 fathom, anybody who fishes within 10 fathom—if the gear is within 10 fathom—then the weak links are not required. It sounds simple, but it actually saves about 99% of island fishers their time and money. It's also a very low-risk area based on sightings of whales in the past, so within 10 fathom, not requiring that mandatory measurement for weak links would be a huge help here on P.E.I.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you.

As it relates to the crab fishery in the gulf, which is pursued in deeper water, are there recommendations that you view as workable? I believe that one thing we all agree on is protecting the North Atlantic right whale and, in deference, protecting our access to the key U.S. market. I mean, at 70% of our market, obviously it sends shivers up the spines of all fishers if the Americans toy with this. We experienced it in P.E.I., as you're aware, when the Americans closed the border on P.E.I. potatoes, and the shock waves that it sent through that industry.

On that side, could you provide additional testimony, written testimony, to the committee on steps that you would like to see this committee recommend to DFO, both to ensure the protection of the whale but also to allow the fishers to maximize their fishing efforts? Is it something that you could comment on?

[Melanie Giffin]

We can submit those comments. That was specific to snow crab. Is that correct?

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Yes, and to lobster as well, because it is starting to look at lobster.

[Melanie Giffin]

Yes, we can submit those.

On the snow crab side we definitely want to see the adaptability that others have been talking about in those seasonal closures. That would definitely assist our snow crab fishers in getting out there but would still protect the whales at the same time.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Ms. Giffin.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for six minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Given what I'm hearing today, I'd like to put my next question to Mr. Lansbergen.

Mr. Lansbergen, I would like to get your opinion on the importance DFO places on humans versus the importance they place on right whales.

In other words, does it consider the preservation of the right whale as much as it does the impact on individuals in order to preserve our reputation with the United States?

[Paul Lansbergen]

Thank you for the question.

I think DFO often tends to look at the ocean ecosystem and marine mammals more so than the industry as an economic driver for coastal communities. Yes, I think they are putting more weight on protecting the ecosystem and various parts of it, more so than looking at how to do that as well as promote the growth of the industry, if that answers your question.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Giffin, basically what we're hearing today is that fishers would like to be consulted more.

We sense from you that there is a fairly simple solution that could be put in place that would solve 99% the problem for fishers. Being a biologist and a scientist, basically, you would like to see more consultation with fishers and a certain period of time to ensure the adaptability of the mechanisms we want to put in place.

Is that the way you see it?