Fisheries Committee on Oct. 21st, 2022

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you. I think it's important for this committee to understand that Canada's measures that have been put in place have been leading North America in protecting the North Atlantic right whale. Contrary to what you may hear, fishers are a big part of that.

Mr. Brillant, I'm here in Tignish in my constituency office. I'm very familiar with the work that was done out of this particular fishing community. You are correct; everything you've provided to this committee is accurate. I can attest to that, because I spoke to the fishermen who gave a good review of the ropeless technology that allowed them to fish in restricted zones, get their catch and protect the whales.

Are there things we could do to enhance that and improve on it?

[Dr. Sean Brillant]

Having access to the gear is a key thing. This gear is not easy to come by, and it is expensive. This is why, for example, the gear-lending program is a great model for these early days so that fish harvesters don't need to make these tremendous investments into this gear just yet. Rather, we can have this shared pool, this community gear library, and they can access it when they need to.

Being familiar with it and trained with it is very important, as is being open-minded, being willing to try it and discovering that this stuff will work for a fisher. These are all the things that need to happen.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you.

My last question will go to Dr. Morissette.

I want to pass along to you that my colleague from Caraquet, Mr. Cormier, could not make the committee meeting today. He had been looking forward to questioning you.

My question will focus on some testimony given about the acoustic technology. Could you comment to the committee on whether it is as effective to use these same acoustic technologies to reopen an area as it is to close it? There appeared to be some conflicting testimony given to this committee on that. Could you express your opinion on whether that is good technology that would allow the fisheries to reopen an area that had previously been closed?

[Dr. Lyne Morissette]

I'm not sure what the protocol is for using acoustic data to close or reopen a fishing area, but for sure we need to do the same thing for both actions, for closing it and reopening it. At the moment, acoustic detection works for detecting the presence of whales, but it's not used as a trigger to reopen an area when it's closed. That discrepancy might be problematic, yes.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

That's actually where I want you to comment from—namely, your background as a marine researcher on how whales migrate. Do you feel that it would be reliable as a method for allowing an area to open? Do you see any reason for not using it?

[Dr. Lyne Morissette]

No, I don't see any reason for not using it. The best way to use it is by triangulation to make sure that we have the exact location of the whales for reopening or closing an area.

Another thing is that I think would be important to include is the behaviour of whales. When they are transiting to their feeding ground, they don't stay in the area. If we close one area after another after another, that becomes problematic. It should be included in the way we survey these whales to know if they are feeding and aggregating somewhere or if they are just transiting to an area. That happens north of the Magdalen Islands, where we're closing areas that are not that risky. They are just transiting through.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I think my time is up, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Yes. You're a little bit over. Thanks, Mr. Morrissey.

Madam Morissette, Ms. Brown and Mr. Brillant, thank you for your testimony here today and for sharing your knowledge with the committee as we do this particular study.

I'll allow you to sign off now while we transition into the second portion of our presentations this afternoon. Again, thank you.

We'll suspend for a minute or two.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We're back for the second portion of our witness panel right now, and we have with us Ms. Elmslie and Ms. Fuller, and that's it. We have two witnesses.

We'll start off with opening statements. We'll go to Ms. Fuller first, for five minutes or less, please.

[Susanna Fuller, Vice-President, Operations and Projects, Oceans North]

Yes, please just give me one second. I had planned to go after Kim. Just hold on one second. I'll be right there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay, we can hear from Kim first if that's better for you.

[Susanna Fuller]

It would be slightly better for me, because my children are coming home from school any second.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Okay. We'll allow Kimberly to go first.

Go ahead when you're ready.

[Kimberly Elmslie, Campaign Director, Oceana Canada]

Thank you.

Thank you for the invitation to appear before you today. My name is Kim Elmslie. I'm the campaign director for Oceana Canada.

Oceana Canada was established as an independent charity in 2015 and is part of the largest international advocacy group dedicated solely to ocean conservation.

Our vision is to return Canada's formerly vibrant oceans to health and abundance, then reap the social, cultural and economic opportunities that follow. Simply put, we want to see more fish in the water and more fishing.

I'm here to address concerns about critically endangered North Atlantic right whales, which are facing an imminent extinction, with only about 330 animals left in the population, of which only about 80 —I think we heard 72 earlier—are breeding females. Researchers have found that right whales are no longer dying from natural causes, but from human-created ones, the top two threats being entanglements in fishing gear and ship strikes. Approximately 85% of right whales have scars on their bodies from encounters with fishing gear.

There are many reasons to protect right whales. It's an endangered species, so it's the right thing to do. Polling from 2021 has found that 90% of Canadians want them protected. It's required under the Species at Risk Act, and protecting right whales also protects access for Canadian fisheries to lucrative U.S. markets.

I'm here to present you with three different recommendations that Oceana is making.

One, we'd like to see a transition to a management approach that is permanent, predictable, transparent and adaptable, until such a time that right whales are no longer endangered.

Two, we want the government to continue to work with stakeholders to identify ways to strengthen and improve protection measures.

Three, we want permanent funding for all aspects of the right whale program: science and research, monitoring and surveillance, ropeless gear, disentanglement efforts, necropsies and more.

As everyone has heard, after decades of being found in the Bay of Fundy, right whales are now occurring in the Gulf of St. Lawrence in large numbers. This is an area with some of Canada's most lucrative, important and productive fisheries, as well as important shipping lanes.

As you're all aware, this created a crisis in 2017 in which 12 North Atlantic right whales were killed, and then a further nine were killed in 2019. Finding urgent solutions was important not only for the future of the whales but also for Canadian fisheries. Under the U.S. Marine Mammal Protection Act, Canada must demonstrate that it has put measures in place to mitigate entanglements or risk losing access to U.S. markets.

Here's a little more detail on the recommendations that we're asking for.

In a transition to a more permanent approach, we would like the government, with input from all stakeholders who've responded to the right whale crisis, to put a series of permanent measures in place. The measures so far that have been put in place have created a solid foundation of protection; however, they were created under interim orders and ministerial discretion, which is temporary in nature.

Purpose-built regulations are needed to establish the long-term legal footing to protect right whales for the long run. The regulations need to maintain the strengths of the current dynamic system; be permanent, so that they are maintained; be inclusive of all stakeholders; be transparent, so that everyone has access to the same information; provide certainty to fishers and vessel operators; and be adaptable so that they can apply if there are regional shifts.

The government must seek ways to continually strengthen and improve the measures. Protecting right whales by preventing unnatural, unnecessary deaths will take a sustained effort from all stakeholders and others over a course of years. The government must continue to implement, monitor and enforce clear protection measures, with the goal of zero preventable right whale deaths.

The right whale population is continuing to decline, so the government must continue to refine and improve the existing measures. Another year with multiple deaths, like 2017 or 2019, would be devastating for right whales and could put Canada afoul of the U.S. Marine Mammal Protection Act.

Finally, the entire right whale program needs to be fully funded. Since 2017, the government has created a world-class science team. DFO is developing cutting-edge technology on ropeless gear for snow crab. DFO scientists are utilizing hydrophone arrays, gliders, infrared cameras, satellite imaging and more. There needs to be continued financial support for all of these programs. I said “DFO scientists”, but really it's the whole scientific community.

Finally, at Oceana Canada we believe that these recommendations will help protect North Atlantic right whales and secure access to U.S. markets for Canadian fisheries, which in the long term will support the viability of fisheries in Atlantic Canada.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that.

You're almost dead on the five minutes.

We'll now go to Ms. Fuller for five minutes or less, please.

[Susanna Fuller]

Thank you. It's lovely to see many of you again.

Thank you for inviting me to speak here today.

I work for Oceans North, a Canadian conservation organization focused on ensuring healthy oceans and communities in Canada's Arctic and Atlantic, and with a new organization recently founded in Greenland. We work extensively with indigenous and coastal communities on place-based protection and sustainable fisheries. We also work on shipping impacts and shipping corridor implementation. We have a growing program on oceans and climate change.

My colleagues, whom you've heard from today, are the real experts on the wide variety of work that is being done on the ground to ensure that the North Atlantic right whale does not go extinct on our watch nor at any time in the future.

Oceans North works on place-based protection, fisheries, shipping and, as I mentioned, climate change. The crisis with the North Atlantic right whale population touches all of these issues. It's very hard for us to work on one thing and not take into consideration the measures that are in place with right whales. We know the fishermen are increasingly facing changes in their fisheries, from where they can fish to how they can fish, and sometimes what can be fished. No business likes constant change. However, I would say that the fishing industry is likely one of the more resilient and more used to change, whether imposed by government management or the weather.

This does not make things easier, necessarily. I have heard the testimony of industry colleagues and listened carefully. I know that not one of them, nor the fishermen they represent, want to be implicated in the death of a North Atlantic right whale, or any whale. It is a heartbreaking experience.

I'd like to make three points, many of which have been touched upon by my colleagues.

The first one is on economics. I think while many species in Atlantic Canada have yet to recover from overfishing, those populations that remain healthy, or at least in reasonable shape, have resulted in the fishery being more valuable than ever before. We will always have a market for sustainably caught seafood that originates from comparatively clean waters. In ensuring that these fisheries have as little impact on the North Atlantic right whale as possible—and all whales, for that matter—we'll ensure that they will continue to be seen as sustainable and fished by the people who care for the ocean they depend upon. I think we can do much more to showcase the work being done by our fishers. They should be proud of the changes they have made and, where possible, use this to a market advantage.

My second point is to reiterate that we cannot in any way reduce protection measures. The incredible effort by government, fishers and non-governmental organizations and indigenous fishers must continue. We are in unprecedented times in terms of a changing ocean. The Gulf of St. Lawrence, where most of the North Atlantic right whales have been found for the past several years, is warming faster than any other part of Canada's ocean. It's likely that the prey that the North Atlantic right whale are feeding on will move again, and whales will follow. This means that we have to continue the science, monitoring and stewardship, and expand it so that when whales do move, we are ready. We ended up in the situation we had in 2017 because of a lack of investment in monitoring and stewardship in the preceding years. We also know that things will continue to change and that we need to be ready for those changes as much as possible.

My final point is to emphasize that what Canada does—I think you've heard a lot about the incredible work that has been done—to reduce impacts on the North Atlantic right whale matters. The recent study by the Commissioner of the Environment and Sustainable Development was clear that the DFO needs to increase its efforts to protect aquatic species at risk and become much more adept at putting measures in place before it is too late.

We're in the midst of a global crisis in biodiversity decline. Countries are going to meet in December in Montreal to set goals for the next 10 to 40 years for how we can halt and reverse this loss. Canada's efforts on the North Atlantic right whale are currently an excellent example of what can be done.

We need to remember that being proactive will cost us less than being reactive. I think we've learned that from the impacts of climate change as well.

Canada needs to continue to lead by example and encourage other countries to do the same. I have no doubt that with the continued collaborative efforts that have been happening, we can have more summers with no North Atlantic right whale deaths.

Thank you for inviting me. Those are my three points. I welcome any of your relevant questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you for that. We'll now go to our rounds of questioning.

We'll go to Mr. Arnold first, for six minutes or less, please.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to both witnesses for being here today.

From what we're hearing, it's a collaborative approach that seems to be needed and is working.

I'll start with a question for Ms. Elmslie.

When you look at Canada's versus the U.S.'s approaches, what do you feel are the strengths in the way that Canada has taken action to protect right whales over what the U.S. has done?

[Kimberly Elmslie]

Thank you for that question.

It's phenomenal to me, when I look back to 2017 when we had this crisis year of 17 deaths, just how much happened, and how quickly. These whales were entering a completely new area, which we weren't expecting or predicting. Those fishermen in that area rose to the challenge.

We have area closures that are not happening in the U.S. This is a strength. We have a really good foundation of measures that we have put in place above and beyond what the U.S. has put in place.

We have such goodwill from all of the stakeholders involved. It's phenomenal what we have been able to accomplish when we needed to.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

What data or information are you aware of that Monterey Bay based its red listing on? Was it science-based and factual, or otherwise?

[Kimberly Elmslie]

It did publish, along with its decision, a document of about 60 pages that lists and goes through how it came to its decision. It is transparent in its decision—or on how it made its decision.

A lot of it is based on uncertainty, I guess—the unknowns of what we don't know. This is, again, why I feel that we need to continue with all of the science work we're doing. There still are uncertainties, so we need to continue to fill in that gap.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

Can you identify what might be at risk if more fatalities are found, similar to what we saw in 2017?

[Kimberly Elmslie]

My biggest concern is this U.S. MMPA. These are such important fisheries. They are our two most important fisheries on the east coast.

We've had a collapse of finfish and a lack of rebuilding plans for fish that are in the critical stocks in the east coast. We have started to see a decline in snow crab, so we want to arrest that. It would be absolutely devastating for the east coast if we were to lose access to the U.S. markets.

To me, I see protecting right whales as a win-win—for the species itself and also for fishermen in Atlantic Canada. We need to maintain that access. We need to do the right thing for the whales, but we need to maintain that access.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

It seems that the best way of protecting those whales, or one way of protecting those whales, is to know where they are.

I want to reference a satellite tracking program that's been undertaken for wildlife in my province and in my area in the interior of B.C., where satellite transponders are attached to mule deer. They're actually attached to those mule deer for as long as they'll stay on. The information that has been gathered through that has been surprising scientists and biologists. It has been incredibly valuable in planning for their recovery in some areas of B.C.

I'm just wondering if anyone that you're aware of has looked at the possibility of transponder attachment to whales so that we could have real-time tracking to have less impact on our fish harvesters.

I'll put that question out to both of you.

[Kimberly Elmslie]

I'll take a first crack at it and then send it over to Dr. Fuller.

I love that question, because it's so important. We need to know where these animals are. You'd think it would be easier than it is, but it's not.

Tracking devices have been used. There are some that go on the surface and can attach to the whale, but these whales seem to understand that they're on them and they hate them. They're violent and they rub them off. It only stays on for a couple of months.

Then there are those subcutaneous ones that can be used. The problem with right whales is that the blubber layer is only about eight inches thick. Right now, the technology is to insert the tracker so that we could see where they are. The tracker itself is about 10 inches long. It's just too big and they would cause infections in a population that is already under tremendous stress.

This is where I send out my SOS to Elon Musk. If he's listening, please get us a better tracker so that we can solve this problem through technology and know where these whales are. That would really help a lot of our problems.