Fisheries Committee on Oct. 28th, 2022

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

That's perfect.

[Robert Wight]

—or a maximum of around 40 centimetres of ice.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Okay.

For my colleagues around the table, some of the questions I'm asking are because my region is one of the ones where we cannot go out earlier because some of the ice is stuck, like I said, in the Baie de Caraquet and in the Baie de Shippegan.

My question for Mr. Mes, I think, or for Mr. Nabaa, is that each year, for the last three years.... Like I said, thank you for all the effort you're putting in place for the icebreaking issue that we are having, but each year we run like dogs chasing their tails, because some of those contracts with third parties are not signed appropriately or are not done. There are a lot of issues when it comes to the third party agreements we have with some of those companies.

Can you tell this committee if those contracts with third parties, whether it's Groupe Océan for next year, for example, or with ECO Technologies, with the “frog” as we call it here...? Can you tell us that those contracts are signed and done so those companies can go out early next season if we have an ice situation? Depending on the season, sometimes we have ice and sometimes we don't have ice, but can you guarantee us that those contracts are signed as we speak?

[Marc Mes]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

That's my area of responsibility: to deliver the ships and the programs, including the third party agreements. Those agreements are in order right now. They are getting finalized and negotiated at the regional levels. They will be in place in time for the fishing season, both in the bays of Shippegan and Caraquet and in the other ports and harbours.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Regarding the hovercraft, like you said, we have one hovercraft for the region, and of course priority goes to places like Restigouche when the river overflows. Of course this needs to be done in an urgent manner, but we all know that, even if the channels are getting worked on with some of those third party agreements, we also need the hovercraft to come to open and clear some of the ice before the fishermen can safely go out to sea.

How can we say that we want to go out early when I think it's clear that we don't have the tools in front of us, even if we're making all the effort. Yes, we have tools, but if the ice is too thick and Groupe Océan cannot come, for example, if the water is too shallow, the icebreaker you're using right now cannot come.

What is the other solution, in your opinion, that we can that put in place to have an earlier season start to make sure that we don't have any entangled right whales and that they don't come early to our fishing zone?

[Marc Mes]

The question is a very good one.

Fishermen want to get out in advance of the right whales and then hopefully be able to get back in before the right whales arrive so they don't get entangled in the fishing gear. Part of this is dependent very much on weather and the climate, so if ice is favourable and we can get in with the cascading resources, we do, including the hovercraft. We understand the need to get the fishermen out because of the right whales, so there is pressure upon us also to help address that as a priority.

We do have two icebreakers in central Canada, one is identified usually for the Restigouche River, but it also could be that we have to cascade in another vessel.

We do our best in moving things forward and trying to address it, but I understand fishermen want to get out and get fishing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for two and a half minutes, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

For the benefit of all the committee members, could you tell us whether it would be advisable to adopt an adequate and appropriate dynamic management approach with regard to right whale protection measures and fishing activities?

Would this have a positive effect on fishers' survival and on the fishing-related economy in this part of eastern Quebec?

Do you think dynamic management could give hope to fishers if we combine your coast guard services, the extremely valuable knowledge of the fishers on the ground, and DFO's interventions in terms of promoting outstanding efforts?

Could we, in the short term, make fishing safer for fishers and appropriate from an international market perspective?

Are there any other alternatives we should consider?

Do you have any advice to offer us on this subject?

[Marc Mes]

Again, it's very difficult to speculate with regard to how to answer your question. In the end, I can say that we look at every avenue we can to help get the fishermen out and get the harbour breakouts done.

We all know that climate change and the ice are cyclical. We've had two or three rather mild winters in Atlantic Canada and the gulf. If we go back to 2014-15, there weren't enough icebreakers able to help deal with the ice conditions that we had, which were significant.

All we can do is cascade. We have a zonal approach to icebreaking. That zonal approach means that I can take assets from central Canada and Atlantic Canada and move them around depending on where the highest priority is. That's really the manner in which the Coast Guard is able to address some of the demands that come for icebreaking assistance, whether it be in the gulf, Atlantic Canada or central Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens.

We'll finish off now with Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I was actually going to ask a little bit about the ongoing adaptiveness required with changes as a result of the climate crisis and also with changes in sightings and where we're seeing North Atlantic right whales. I can imagine that your role requires a lot of ongoing adaptiveness. I'm wondering if you can share with us what you feel are the one or two main things that we should know as a committee.

I know you spoke about the importance of having enough vessels, the importance of having enough capacity, the importance of having different types of vessels based on conditions, but what do you think are the one or two main things that we should know, moving forward, that you need in your role to specifically protect the North Atlantic right whale and fishers?

[Marc Mes]

Thank you. That's a very good question.

I think the first one you've already kind of identified, and that's fleet renewal and getting the fleet and the broad fleet. We're going to have more icebreakers than we currently have. We're going to have more ships than we currently have. That in itself is going to meet the ever-increasing demands of nature but also help in the delivery of our programs.

In concert with this new fleet, we've also, then, begun to look at what we call a fleet sustainability initiative. Really, it's about the people we're going to need for the larger ships, the increased number of ships. What kind of infrastructure are we going to need? What kind of training are we going to need? This is the next step that the Coast Guard is now undertaking so that we can position ourselves for the arrival of the new ships. I think that's one of the things that are critical. We're going to have more sailors. We're going to need more training at the college. We're going to have to have a different kind of infrastructure. We're going to have to have a different kind of expertise on board our ships to be able to deliver our programs differently.

Then there is the modernization of the marine navigation system, and that's the second piece. The whole world is going to digitalization. The whole world is going towards real-time sharing of information and data. That is something that the Coast Guard is also leading, in concert with our department, and it is a critical piece that we're going to need. With regard to new ships, in 10 years—if not sooner—we're going to see autonomous ships. If we don't have a digitized and modernized marine navigation system, there is a really good chance that some of these autonomous ships won't come to Canada. It's important that we position ourselves, and we are beginning to work on that digitalization and modernization of the marine navigation system and the communication with our mariners.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

That concludes our rounds of questioning for today.

I want to give a big thank you to our three witnesses who appeared in our second hour and shared their knowledge with the committee on this important study.

Your time is always valuable, I know, but you're always there to appear when invited.

I will remind committee members that, on Tuesday, we will have one last meeting with our witnesses for the North Atlantic right whales study. We will finish up with half an hour of committee business to provide drafting instructions to the analysts for the report.

Just off the record, I guess.... Mr. Morrissey did mention that I was going to pay him back for something on the committee. I subbed in on the HUMA committee, which he chairs, this past week. He wouldn't even let me ask a question.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

He exhausted his time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

But I forgave him for it quickly.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

The meeting is adjourned.