Fisheries Committee on Oct. 28th, 2022

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here today.

First, Mr. Mes, thank you for the efforts you've been making over the past few years with regard to icebreaking. Just in front of my riding office, I can see the places where those efforts are being made, by which I mean the Baie de Caraquet and the Baie de Shippagan a little further away. Those are the places we have trouble every year, as you know. These small channels need to be cleared of ice so that our local fishers can go to sea a little earlier and prevent whales from becoming entangled in their ropes. It also ensures that there are no whales on our fishing territory when the season starts.

What steps need to be taken to charter third party vessels, as you mentioned?

As you know, Ocean Group has come to lend a hand these past few years, as has ECO Technologies, which is in our region.

What's the process for awarding these contracts?

[Marc Mes]

Thank you very much for the question.

We use a bit of a tiered approach. The first thing is we always assign a light icebreaker to Shippagan and Caraquet in New Brunswick, the Acadian peninsula, which is one of those areas that the fishermen want to get out to sooner rather than later. I completely understand that.

The light icebreaker will break ice, but it is restricted, of course, by its size and its draft and will only be able to do a portion of that. Then we cascade in other resources. We'll bring in the spot charter. We'll bring in a small tug that will be able to get into some of those other areas that the light icebreaker can't get into. It too is restricted by the fact that it can only break up to 40 centimetres of ice. Then we also bring in what we call the Amphibex machine—basically an excavator with claws on it that floats on ice—which is able to then break out additional ice that the other two assets can't get to. This opens up the shipping lanes that have already been opened up by the light icebreaker and the tugs so that the fishing vessels can get out.

The last resort is to bring in our air-cushioned vehicle, our hovercraft. The hovercraft will come in and then further break any ice. We have to balance the need of the hovercraft with regard to its priority in the Restigouche River area, which is a priority, because if we don't break ice there, we then have flooding into personal properties. Once we can get the hovercraft, it will come in.

It is very much a cascading approach. Because of the icebreaking, over the last couple of years we were basically opening up the fishing harbours about a week earlier, on average, than we normally did if we didn't have this cascading process of assets.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I follow you perfectly. I think it's very important to note what you said, which is that your icebreakers can't fit into small channels like the ones leading into the Baie de Shippagan and the Baie de Caraquet. That's why, as you said, it's necessary to charter third party vessels like Ocean Group, which sends its tug.

But you also said that, unfortunately, when the ice is more than 16 inches thick, it doesn't work. We saw that this year. The tug wasn't able to get through until a few weeks later than usual, owing to the thickness of the ice.

In the same vein, you talked about the arrival of new icebreakers. Everybody is waiting for them, because they'll be able to navigate shallow waters like the channels to the Baie de Caraquet and the Baie de Shippagan.

First, do you have some idea of when those new icebreakers will be ready?

Second, what is the minimum depth in which those new vessels can operate? Will they be able to enter the Baie de Caraquet and the Baie de Shippagan?

[Marc Mes]

I think, Mr. Chair, I'll pass that over to my colleague, Mr. Wight. He is probably better placed than me to talk about what the timelines are for the arrival of the new midshore multi-mission vessels with the shallower draft, which hopefully will be able to help us in these areas.

[Robert Wight, Director General, Vessel Procurement, Canadian Coast Guard, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We are currently in the design stage for the midshore multi-mission vessel, looking at the requirements with our colleague, Mr. Mes. We have gone out with a request for information last year into the beginning of this year for industry input. This vessel will be approximately 700 tonnes to 900 tonnes, somewhere in there, so a fairly small vessel. That vessel will be capable, we're hoping, of breaking 40 centimetres or more of ice with its icebreaking hull, and doing so in a shallow draft.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I don't mean to cut you off, but how much time are we talking about before we see this vessel built and in operation?

[Robert Wight]

We will be going out during the year 2023-24 for design. Following that, which will hopefully take a year, we will be seeing a build contract issued. We will be seeing those in the late 2020s.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Did you say late 2020s?

[Robert Wight]

[Technical difficulty—Editor] delivered. The speed of delivery will depend on the shipyard that's chosen. It won't be one of the three big shipyards under the national shipbuilding strategy. It will be a small shipbuilder, as was the intent of the national shipbuilding strategy for ships that are less than 1,000 tonnes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You're dead on your six minutes.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for six minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the representatives of the Canada Coast Guard for being here. It's always nice to have them here.

I'm going to take 30 seconds of my speaking time to thank them. My first time on a boat was when I was seven days old. In fact, it was on the Canada Coast Guard ship Montcalm, which took my parents and me from Quebec City to Isle-aux-Coudres, because the Isle-aux-Coudres ferry was out of service due to a fault with the clutch. My father was the ferry captain at the time. So the captain of the Montcalm told my father he would take us to Isle-aux-Coudres.

The ferry to Isle-aux-Coudres was out of service this morning too, and people would have loved to see a Canada Coast Guard ship sailing along Isle-aux-Coudres.

Mr. Mes, have you ever had to intervene in area 22, which lies along the Magdalen Islands, when whales were sighted? I would imagine so, but I would also like to know how many times you've had to intervene and how it went.

Could you describe the circumstances of your interventions?

[Marc Mes]

The frequency of whales is very much dependent on where these mammals feed as well. Sometimes they are along the coast of the Magdalen Islands. Other times they are further up the coast or further into the gulf. I can't give you any specifics with regard to the percentage of time that they are along the Magdalen Islands. I can tell you that, through the monitoring, each of the respective zones, the restricted zones, once they are monitored, can be opened and closed depending on whether or not whales are sighted.

As soon as whales are sighted through aerial surveillance as well as any other monitoring, those areas are then closed. Whether it's one whale or five whales, it doesn't matter. If a whale is in that area, it is then closed and restricted until no whales can be seen.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

It's taken as a given that whales sighted near the Magdalen Islands are just passing through and that their feeding grounds are located somewhere else, not in those waters.

In your opinion, would it be possible for a group of fishers to acquire a scientific vessel to track moving whales and more accurately gauge their position, so that fishing areas can be reopened as whales leave them?

[Marc Mes]

Yes, absolutely.

The Department of Fisheries and Oceans works on tracking these whales. It's their area of expertise. They track the whales. They identify when there is a whale that is in danger or entangled, for instance. It's the Department of Fisheries, then, that tracks that whale and are able to hopefully untangle it, for instance if it's caught in any sort of nets.

It is the Department of Fisheries and my colleagues who work very much on tracking that. The responsibility of the Coast Guard is really to monitor and to identify any vessels that could potentially be contravening the restrictions in that zone. They always communicate with mariners, informing them of any changes to the restrictions in the zones as well.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Basically, your job is to observe illegal behaviour and report it to Fisheries and Oceans Canada. Your duties also include looking for whales. If you see one, you report it.

The Magdalen Islands fishers' group, which is the largest fishers' group, has acquired a boat that tracks whales.

Do you think that's a good idea?

Could it be an option worth considering as regards the management of area closures and reopenings?

[Marc Mes]

Absolutely. I think the Department of Fisheries and my fisheries colleagues would very much like any information with regard to where whales are or, for instance, where they are going to. First of all, it's difficult to monitor any sort of mammal. Any sort of assistance that the public or fishers might be able to give to the Department of Fisheries.... They're probably the best people to go to help coordinate those kinds of efforts.

We don't want a million boats on the water, but at the same time these kinds of efforts will help us in identifying where these vessels are.

If I could just respond to the committee member's comment, communication is critical for us. It's communicating with our mariners, issuing notifications and the continuous broadcasting to all of the ships and vessels. There are call-in points. Whether they are coming into that region and have been cleared by Transport Canada and the Coast Guard, or whether they are leaving with a full cargo there are call-in points where they have to get this information. Through the continuous broadcasting they are always informed of any sort of restrictions or news of whales, so that they can at least reduce their speeds in those areas.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for six minutes or less.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I'm not very good at the “or less” part, but I'll try.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I've noticed.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you to our witnesses for being here.

I'm very interested in the work that you're doing. It's such important work. I have to admit, I'd love to come out on the water and see the day to day of the work that you're doing.

You spoke in your opening statement about the challenges, the shoulders of the seasons and how sometimes there just aren't enough vessels to go around. I'm wondering if you can expand a little bit on what happens when there aren't enough vessels and what impact it has on the local fishers, communities and so on, to continue on with their work.

[Marc Mes]

There is a level of service that we have for icebreaking. We meet with industry to identify the levels of service and also to prioritize and understand the prioritization of icebreaking services.

The first priority is that any sort of distress or emergency situation takes precedence. That also includes ice jams, because of the significant impact it can have on the economy and those who live ashore.

The second priority is a service request from the ferry service in accordance with the terms of the union. That will be given priority. What I'm talking about here, of course, is the Marine Atlantic ferry from Sydney to Blanc-Sablon. In the terms of the union, it gets a priority.

Then, it's ships with vulnerable cargo. Anything that has the potential for pollution, dangerous goods, perishable goods or vessels that are vital for the survival of the community. It has to be resupply. Then it becomes marine traffic, fishing vessels, commercial ports and fishing harbour breakouts.

These priorities are agreed to with the fishing industry, as well as the levels of service in the Coast Guard's ability to respond. If a vessel breaks down, for instance, and we have to move things around, then we have to reprioritize a tasking to a higher priority based on what has been agreed with industry. The levels of service, ice conditions and traffic density also dictate how that goes.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

How about the capacity of people? I know we have the vessels, but of course we need the people to work on the vessels. Are you seeing any shortages of that?