Fisheries Committee on March 27th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.

We'll go on now to Madame Desbiens for six minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Minister, and thank you for coming. I'd like to thank the other witnesses as well.

I'll begin with a question related to a study that the committee is about to undertake. In the investigations carried out by Fisheries and Oceans on the controlling agreements, it found in 2022 that over 30% of the licences did not meet the regulatory requirements.

How can the department quickly and effectively deal with the problem and plan the required funding before private investors and vertically integrated corporations get their hands on our strategic natural resources?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I'll turn it over to the officials to answer.

[Annette Gibbons]

I just want to make sure that I've understood the question properly. Are you talking about licences in terms of the names of the licence holders?

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

We've been told that over 30% of the licences did not meet regulatory requirements, based on surveys of the controlling agreements. We are therefore afraid that private investors and vertically integrated corporations will take over our resources without necessarily complying with the regulations. We're told that 30% of these activities are non-regulatory and that these people can take over our resources.

[Annette Gibbons]

I don't know where that 30% figure came from, but we do conduct surveys in which we ask questions about controls, because there are regulations to be followed.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

That figure was supplied by the department in 2022.

[Annette Gibbons]

Okay.

There are new regulations on licence controls. We are currently carrying out surveys that include control questions, and we are moving forward with a number of prosecutions. These efforts are ongoing.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

We established regulations a number of years ago to ensure, and to reassure the population, that local fishers would fish their quotas themselves rather than transferring them to others.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Still on the subject of fishers, there would appear to be a surplus in the Quebec Fisheries Fund. Couldn't this surplus have been used to compensate fishers penalized by the closure of the herring, mackerel, flounder and yellowtail flounder fisheries so that they could make a career change? In view of the surplus, couldn't ways have been found to help them?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

It was important for me to go to eastern Quebec to speak directly to the fishers affected by my decision to close the yellowtail flounder and flounder fisheries. According to the information I have, these fishers were given access to some crab quotas in this zone, which will enable them to fish this coming season.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

These people nevertheless lost a great deal last year and are financially insecure. Some even had to sell their boat.

Since there is money remaining in the Quebec Fisheries Fund, Could there not be a budgetary envelope to anticipate the closing of fisheries to keep things like this from happening again? Could that be included in the department's budgetary planning?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Am I to understand that you're asking that the Fund not be used to help fishers affected by a decline in stocks?

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Yes, in the future.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

These funds are mainly used to restore fisheries and make the catch processing sector more efficient through innovations, in order to develop the fishing and processing industry. There are no funds that specifically target declining fisheries that had to be closed.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

When the cod fishery was closed, compensation was offered. A budget can be reorganized, and decisions can be made about what to do, such as focusing on innovation or research.

My question is the one the fish harvesters have been asking me. I believe we have to talk about predictability. What do you think about that?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

There are sometimes funds for declining fisheries that we don't expect to recover very quickly, not in less than a generation, like cod. That, after all, is a situation that rarely occurs.

In fact, most of the closures are temporary, to allow stocks to recover for a few years, but there are no funds to compensate for losses during these temporary closures.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

There are 20 seconds left. There's hardly time to get in the question and the answer.

We'll move on to Ms. Barron for six minutes or less, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the minister for being here. I'm very pleased that you'll be here for the full two hours. Thank you for agreeing to be here for the full length of the meeting.

Thank you to all of those who are here as well.

Currently there is very limited funding allocated to the first nations caucus as an integral part of Canada's delegation to the Pacific Salmon Treaty process. To allow for substantive first nation engagement, adequate resources are necessary. Right now, we have first nations that are carrying the financial burden in order to participate in this process.

I did send a letter, and I recognize that It was very recently. I'm not sure if the minister has had a chance.... I know that the first nations caucus has sent a letter directly, asking the minister if she will direct her attention to this matter and act swiftly to provide necessary long-term and sustainable funding to ensure that first nations are able to effectively contribute to the Pacific Salmon Treaty process, a treaty that directly impacts indigenous rights and titles.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Reconciliation is a top priority of our government. Fisheries reconciliation is an important priority for our department, which is why there is significant funding to enable first nations to participate in fisheries that they are interested in and may not have had access to before. I'm interested in following up on the question, MP Barron, and finding out if there's anything we can do.

With fisheries guardianship, indigenous monitoring and indigenous involvement in science and in access to fisheries, there is a wealth of support, and rightly so, for involving first nations and indigenous peoples in the fishery.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Currently, the existing funding is $185,605, but the First Nations Fisheries Council is asking for $5 million over five years. As you can see, there's a big gap in the resources that are currently being provided.

Just to follow up, will the minister commit to working with the First Nations Fisheries Council to ensure that first nations—there are over 30 first nations—are provided with adequate funding to be able to fully participate in this process that impacts their treaty rights?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I'm certainly committed to looking into that particular request and I'm committed to working with first nations to make sure we understand their interest in the fishery and satisfy them wherever possible.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

My next question is around the PSSI, the Pacific salmon strategy initiative funding. Right now, as you know, we're seeing wild Pacific salmon stock dwindling. They're in dire straits right now, and we need to do all we can to protect and conserve this vital population.

I did send in an Order Paper question asking for the total amount of funding and a breakdown, and I received a response. It said that $741.3 million over five years was the total amount being allocated. If we average this out—and I realize it's going to vary from year to year—it would mean we would have $148 million per year, but for the 2021-22 year, we saw only $15.4 million being spent.

Can the minister speak to this? As we can see, there's a big gap in the amount being committed. It looks as though we're way off track from where we should be at this time. What's being done to ensure we're getting back on track to get this funding allocated to where it needs to be?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you.

I would say we're very much on track. The funding over five years would never imply that we would be pushing the same amount of money out the door in year one, when we are standing up all of the framework to actually deliver on this funding in the most effective way possible. It actually does mean meeting with first nations representatives, meeting with harvester representatives, meeting with the conservation community and so on, so that we know we are structuring this and creating partnerships so that this money will be as effective as possible in meeting the goal of restoring wild Pacific salmon. Of course, that is an iconic set of species we all take to heart, and it is incredibly important for food and cultural purposes for first nations, interior and coastal alike, and for all British Columbians.