Fisheries Committee on March 27th, 2023

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to get back to funding for the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary. We've been told that a budget of $314 million will be allocated to the Canadian Coast Guard, but is a portion of this budget for the Auxiliary Coast Guard?

I'll tell you why I'm asking. I'm just back from a conference on water, where I argued that the St. Lawrence River, because if is so wide and swiftly-flowing, is complex to navigate. There are accordingly a lot of incidents that regularly require a safety intervention. Very often, in the Lower St. Lawrence area of Quebec, it's the Auxiliary Coast Guard that intervenes.

I met these people, and they're fantastic. They do their work on a volunteer basis, put everything into it, and are passionate about what they do. And yet, they end up having to pay $5,000 or $6,000 out of their own pockets to carry out these safety interventions on the river. Not only that, but with the cost of everything increasing, I would imagine that it's going to be even more expensive for them in the coming years.

Did the last budget provide any funding for the Coast Guard Auxiliary? I can confirm that the people there are waiting to hear.

[Mario Pelletier]

Yes, the Coast Guard Auxiliary is an essential partner in our search and rescue system, as you pointed out. We have 4,000 volunteers and a thousand units across Canada.

For the first time in a long time, our budget for the Coast Guard Auxiliary will be increased. With the oceans protection plan, we were able to obtain additional money because the ships are bigger and cost more to operate. We have a contribution program for members of the Coast Guard Auxiliary, which we can use to reimburse their expenses on insurance and fuel for their search and rescue exercises and operations.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I see that there is an increase, and it's definitely welcome, because these are important players on the St. Lawrence River.

Does it also apply to first nations?

[Mario Pelletier]

There is a specific initiative, the Coastal Nations Coast Guard Auxiliary, As well as the Coast Guard Auxiliary we are familiar with, which operates in five different geographical regions.

There has been investment in the Arctic, where we more than doubled our capacity. We also have a program that could be very beneficial for volunteers. Under the indigenous community boat volunteer program, contributions will make it possible for us to purchase small boats and equipment to be transferred to the communities so that they can use them in search and rescue operations.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

That's good news.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I'd like to add that I spent an entire morning a few weeks ago in an icebreaking activity aboard an icebreaker on the St. Lawrence River. The purpose of the exercise was to demonstrate the importance of these operations to the communities, including yours, and others located close to the St. Lawrence. It was very interesting and I thank the commissioner for having invited me to take part.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

It must have been exciting.

Among all the recommendations made concerning science, the department intends to fund scientific research and the concrete participation of the fishers who prepare survey catch reports as they fish.

However, if it's no longer possible for Quebec's fishers to fish for mackerel and herring, how can one expect to fund their participation in stock surveys? These fishers have contributed enormously to these activities over the years. How will you conduct the surveys now?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

The department always makes decisions using the best available science, which is the data of scientists, indigenous knowledge and also the experience of fish harvesters and catch-per-unit-effort. When we're not able to do a comparative trawl, which is the case in some of the fisheries right now as we re-establish the ships that are needed for the Canadian Coast Guard, we have data going back, in some cases, many decades, and so we use those data series as well and pull together the best available science.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

We can't compensate fishers who survey the resource in the field and there's no option other than getting the department's scientists to do it. In short, you're saying that the fishers were required to measure the resource over all these years, but that suddenly, from one day to the next, we can do without them. Is that right?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I'm sorry, Minister, but I will have to ask you to send that to us in writing, as we have gone over the time.

I want to go to Ms. Barron for six minutes or less. Go ahead, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, on January 30 you received a letter from 16 professors and research scientists who have cumulatively published over 1,500 peer-reviewed scientific papers. They have many decades of experience in science advice and processes across various levels of government.

Those who signed this letter expressed deep concern about the recently published DFO science report on the presence of sea lice on wild juvenile salmon and a diminishment of the association of sea lice from nearby salmon farms. They stated that this report is flawed and its conclusions unsupported. They used a couple of examples. The report included contributors who were almost all aquaculture-focused DFO staff with a mandate to support aquaculture development. A second point, among many others, is that the report downplays a large body of peer-reviewed research that has repeatedly demonstrated the relationship between salmon farms and sea lice on wild juvenile salmon.

I'm wondering whether the minister can speak to what she is doing to ensure the scientific advice used in decision-making processes meets the very basic scientific standard of credibility.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Well, first, I want to confirm that we have excellent scientists and very committed public servants doing science on behalf of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

Yes, recent science indicates there is some uncertainty about the risks of Atlantic salmon aquaculture farms, particularly to juvenile and migrating salmon.

I was reflecting on advice from Canada's chief science advisor in the 2018 report on DFO science, as well as the new science that has come out showing the challenges for wild Pacific salmon. I think a review of our science process, consistent with the advice of Dr. Nemer, is something I'll be discussing with the officials.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Minister. I would agree that there are many excellent scientists employed by DFO who are doing great work. This is more focused on the decision-making process and which science is being considered and which is not.

Could the minister clarify whether she agrees with the concerns brought forward in this letter by these 16 professors?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

I certainly took into account the fact that there was more recent science showing there may be risks to the wild Pacific salmon from pathogens and parasites.

The other aspect I took into account is that these fish face cumulative impacts that are outside of our control, such as climate change, habitat loss and, in some cases, pollution and vessel traffic. These cumulative impacts mean I have to manage the ones within my control. The viability of wild Pacific salmon is a critical, existential requirement on the west coast because of its importance to indigenous peoples—coastal and interior alike—and the British Columbia public.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

You listed some of the impacts on wild Pacific salmon. I agree fish farms are one component of these impacts. However, earlier you also discussed the importance of following the precautionary principle. Currently we have sound research and evidence that there are harms as a result of fish farms on wild Pacific salmon.

With the precautionary principle being considered here, why are we still seeing open-net fish farms in our waters that continue to harm our surrounding marine ecosystems?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

As the member is aware, I recently took a decision not to re-license 15 salmon aquaculture facilities in the Discovery Islands, and our government has committed to transition from open-net pen salmon farming on the Pacific coast in reflection of the concerns she mentioned.

I am aiming to have that transition plan available within the next six months or so. We've been consulting very extensively with first nations, communities, the industry, environmental groups and others on how that plan should be formulated and what it should include. I look forward to having more discussions on that plan once it's been made public.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Minister.

I was reflecting as well on that piece around the importance of a real jobs plan for those communities that are impacted.

We know that we need to be moving forward at a very rapid pace to get these fish farms out of the water. It should have been done long ago. However, coastal communities can't bear the brunt of the impacts of those fish farms coming out of the water. What have you heard to date on what options will be provided to local communities, both financially and with training and alternatives to opening up fish farms, alternatives that specifically eliminate interactions between open-net fish farms and the surrounding marine ecosystem? What can we share with coastal communities about what that plan will look like and when it will be implemented?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron. We'll have to try to get an answer to that question in writing from the minister, as your time has gone a little bit over.

Mr. Arnold, you did ask for Mr. Epp to move further down the line, so I presume that I'm going now to Mr. Small for five minutes or less.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

No, Mr. Chair. We're asking that the other parties take their slots first. We'll be going to Mr. Epp after the other parties have their rounds in this second round.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

All right.

We'll go to Mr. Kelloway for five minutes or less, please.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Hello, Minister, and hello to everyone who is here today.

My questions are around the oceans protection plan.

In 2016, our government launched the oceans protection plan. I know that it's being reviewed now. I'm wondering, Minister, if you could speak to some of the successes of the program. In addition to the renewal, though, I understand that the OPP is being improved. I wonder if you could speak to some of the improvements.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you for that.

As a coastal British Columbian, I found it unique and very satisfying to see the government put forward the $1.5-billion investment in the oceans protection plan, which brought together a historic combination of ministries, from the Ministry of Transport to the Ministry of Fisheries and Oceans, Environment and Natural Resources, to figure out how we could best protect the Pacific coast. One of the things that came out of that was the reopening of Canadian Coast Guard stations on the Pacific that had been closed in the previous decade.

The reason I call the oceans protection plan significant is that it is a holistic approach. Rather than thinking department by department or problem by problem, which really is the more conventional way of looking at this, the holistic approach looks at how we protect the oceans and what we are protecting them from.

The amount of marine traffic is only increasing, and that creates the risk of spills. Abandoned vessels create risks to the oceans. There are safety concerns in the oceans. Fundamental to doing a better job is improving data on the marine environment—that was a big part of the oceans protection plan—and understanding how oil behaves and breaks down and what the best ways are to deal with it under different marine conditions. The oceans protection plan funded over 60 projects to restore coastal aquatic habitats through the coastal restoration fund, so $2 billion was historic—it was $1.5 billion, and we recently added $2 billion to continue that work.

One of the key initiatives that were funded through that, which I think was extremely significant, was to develop an opportunity for coastal indigenous communities to participate in their historic activity, which is protecting the oceans and the mariners on them. We have provided funding of more than $12 million to over 40 indigenous communities to purchase search and rescue boats and equipment to be able to participate in the marine emergency response of the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary. We co-launched the Coastal Nations Coast Guard Auxiliary, the first indigenous-led auxiliary organization, with units in eight first nations communities along the B.C. coast.

I want to say that this set of work represents an integrated approach. I want to acknowledge the leaders of the Canadian Coast Guard for really moving outside of our typical and traditional approach and becoming partners with first nations on all three coasts.

Last, I'll just mention that I had a chance to spend a week in the Arctic, along with the acting regional director general of the Fisheries branch for the Arctic and with members of the Canadian Coast Guard. I went to a Coast Guard base in Rankin Inlet, where the captain of the ship was a young Inuit woman, with other Inuit and women on her crew. It was so important for them to be able to be part of protecting people and protecting waters through the support of the OPP in the Arctic.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

That's great.

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You have 40 seconds and counting.

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Okay.

The opposition said I had five seconds, but I believe you, Mr. Chair, always.