Fisheries Committee on March 27th, 2023

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

We are delivering the money that we are promising.

There is a very small component that automatically is taken by Public Works and Shared Services Canada for equipment, for computers and for procurement services. We will be reviewing that small component of $300,000, I believe, to ensure it is appropriate, given the way the structuring of the operations and science provided by DFO are done.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hardie, for trying to keep us to as close to the time as possible. I do appreciate that.

Our time on supplementary estimates (C) of course has run out. We will now move on to main estimates.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), the committee is beginning its study of the main estimates 2023-24, votes 1, 5 and 10 under the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

Minister Murray, you have five minutes for an opening statement, please.

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As I mentioned in my earlier opening remarks, I'm pleased to be here with the committee members on the traditional unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabeg people.

I've previously introduced the staff, the officials and leaders from the DFO. I don't think I need to repeat that.

Mr. Chair, I'm appearing today before the committee to present the Supplementary Estimates, 2023‑24, on behalf of Fisheries and Oceans Canada and the Canadian Coast Guard.

Again, at the end, I'll be happy to answer any questions you have.

Mr. Chair, for the 2023-24 fiscal year, I'm seeking a total of $4.1 billion in planned spending. This requested amount represents an increase of $124.5 million compared with the 2022-23 main estimates, last year's estimates.

This increase in expenditures is a result of changes to funding requirements for several existing and new departmental initiatives. These key initiatives include $314 million for projects related to the Canadian Coast Guard fleet, including new vessels; $89.8 million in new funding to support ongoing recovery efforts from hurricane Fiona; and $73.1 million to continue our work under the oceans protection plan.

It's important to note that 433.4 million dollars' worth of decreases in other spending has offset this increase, and this includes a number of planned profile changes or previously approved funding related to indigenous programs, the modernization of the Fisheries Act, several fisheries funds, and the protection of Canada's nature parks and wild spaces. This is in addition to sunsetting funding for the small craft harbours program from budget 2021.

It's important to address one of the decreases in our main estimates: the previously approved $86.8-million funding change for indigenous programs. While this change appears significant, it's explained mainly by a planned re-profiling of funding from one year to the next and does not reflect a change in this government's commitment to reconciliation.

This type of spending varies from year to year, depending on the stage of negotiations and other influences. In this particular case, a large amount of planned spending for the 2021-22 year was re-profiled into 2022-23, resulting in an unusually high level of planned spending for 2022-23 and an apparent decrease in 2023-24—apparent, but not actual.

Mr. Chair, hurricane Fiona devastated small craft harbours in Atlantic Canada and eastern Quebec.

After the storm, I contacted Allan Coady, the president of the Harbour Authority of Covehead, and a lobster fisherman, in Prince Edward Island, and was able to personally see the unbelievable damage to the port.

I'm glad our government is doing its part to support the ongoing recovery from hurricane Fiona with funding to repair critical infrastructure, retrieve lost fishing gear and help offset some of the costs with engineering assessments so that future infrastructure and harbours can withstand this current reality of climate change anomalies by being more resilient in the build-back because severe storms will probably, unfortunately, continue to be our reality going forward.

There is no doubt that Canada's oceans and marine resources are in greater demand than ever. That's why, in 2016, our government announced the Oceans Protection Plan, and that's also why the 2022 budget set aside a historic allocation of $1.1 billion over nine years, in addition to $70 million in ongoing funding to renew the plan and build on its successes.

The oceans protection plan, or OPP, is improving marine safety and environmental response on all coasts with initiatives like the marine training program to help under-represented groups access marine training. We co-launched the Coastal Nations Coast Guard Auxiliary, which currently has eight first nations participating. The OPP has given government the opportunity to partner with indigenous communities. All of these important investments contribute to keeping the waters safe, people safe on the waters, and the environment protected.

Finally, Mr. Chair, you'll notice that spending on the Canadian Coast Guard fleet is the largest item in my department's main estimates.

This $314 million in funding is made up of a combination of both new and carried over funds that will supply the Canadian Coast Guard with new ships while at the same time allowing for the work needed to maintain existing operational ships. It's more than just providing the Coast Guard with the equipment it needs, and the building of these new ships will help to create good jobs here in Canada from coast-to-coast, including in Quebec.

The COVID 19 pandemic contributed to delays and higher costs in some cases. As a result, some projects are not advancing as quickly as planned, and the Canadian Coast Guard has re-profiled funding to better align with the realities of shipyard construction schedules.

Mr. Chair, the funding that I am seeking through the main estimates will ensure that my department can fulfill its mandate on behalf of all Canadians.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Minister.

Before I go to questions, I want to remind members that I'm going to have to be very strict on time in this portion, as we want to get to a couple of votes afterwards on the actual main estimates.

We'll start off with Mr. Arnold for six minutes or less.

Go ahead, please.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and before you start my time, I'd like to put forward that I've had discussions with all parties, and for the second round of this second hour, Mr. Epp would like to take the final questioning spot to allow the other parties to make sure they have their questions in.

I'd like to start my time now. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Yes.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

Thank you for being here, Minister and officials.

Aquatic invasive species have been at the forefront of some of my work on this committee since I arrived here in 2015-16. Minister, we've continuously asked for adequate funding to protect against aquatic invasive species in British Columbia and we've continued to see a failure by your department on its mandate to deliver the needed prevention measures in British Columbia. Has your department worked with the Canada Border Services Agency, Environment Canada and Transport Canada on training so that border agents and officials understand the extreme threat that zebra and quagga mussels would pose to the Okanagan and the Shuswap and the entire Fraser and Columbia river systems?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you to the member, and our government certainly understands the importance of protecting Canadian waters and coordinating efforts to prevent the spread of aquatic invasive species.

I want to reassure the member that this was a key topic of my meeting in Winnipeg last fall with the Canadian fisheries ministers from across the country. We really did commit to collectively upping our game on that, as well as working with U.S. counterparts to support us.

The 2022 fall economic statement identified $36.6 million over five years, starting in the year that's just passed, to expand the aquatic invasive species program that DFO runs. That will enable us to undertake new activities and work with the provinces, which do a lot of this work at the borders to ensure that the protocols are in place and effective. We do need to prevent the spread of these species for the well-being and health of our ecosystems in the future.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

We absolutely do, Minister, and we've seen little action on that.

Minister, when the Pacific salmon strategy initiative was announced in 2021, it was announced with defined objectives for the initiative and associated funding. Is that correct?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Yes, it committed to doing several categories of work.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

Earlier this year, the committee was informed that the PSSI Habitat Restoration Centre of Expertise had been launched, with key actions taken to date focused on program staffing and setting implementation objectives. In 2016, Minister LeBlanc promised British Columbians concrete action to support and restore wild pacific salmon, but in 2023 your department is still focused on staffing and setting objectives.

Why is it taking so long?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Well, I will remind the member that we had a massive emergency in British Columbia with the Big Bar slide. I would say that it absorbed not just tens of millions of dollars but a lot of science and other talent and capacity in the Department of Fisheries and Oceans as well.

Second, we have committed to the $647 million of the PSSI. For the first year, we are taking the time to consult as we set it up and direct it towards outcomes and objectives so that every dollar can be as effective as possible.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

When the PSSI was announced in 2021, components such as the Restoration Centre for Expertise, harvest transformation, BCSRIF funding, increased hatchery production and other investments were identified as part of the PSSI vision.

In 2022, we learned that PSSI funds were being allocated to flood recovery in the Fraser Valley. Although clearly it has been necessary, this was not part of the original PSSI announcement. Earlier this year, we learned that PSSI funding has been directed to other initiatives that were not identified with PSSI when it was announced. There are new components, such as the Pacific Salmon Science Data Centre and the conservation and protection international compliance program.

Minister, which investments identified in the original PSSI announcement are being displaced as your office allocates PSSI funds to new recipients?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

None. We have already funded—

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay. If you say “none”, we'll move on.

Although PSSI funds are significant, they're also limited. Where are PSSI funds being moved within PSSI to cover the new allocations?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Any of the projects the member mentioned are about achieving the objectives of restoring and protecting wild salmon. I expect that what would have been identified as exactly how to do that at the outset will be changing as we learn more, do the science and begin the implementation.

I don't see this as an absolute fixed situation. We need to protect and restore wild salmon. We have a number of years of funding to do just that. We'll continue to work on our plan to be as effective as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Arnold. Your time is up.

We'll now go to Mr. Cormier for six minutes or less, please.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair

Thank you, Minister, for joining us today.

For me, spring means the start of the fishing season in my region. I see the crab and lobster fishing boats going by in Caraquet Bay in front of my house as they head offshore to get the season under way. For the past five years, we have been dealing with the challenge of protecting right whales, and I think that we did extremely well in that regard. We also need to acknowledge the amazing work done by the fishers themselves to modernize their fishing methods.

Every year, we do our utmost to break up the ice in my region's ports, which is a bit problematic because as you know, the ice has been staying around a little longer. We experienced a few minor challenges this year in terms of the equipment we had been promised, but that's now been dealt with. I am even happy when I see the Judy LaMarsh icebreaker entering Caraquet Bay for the first time every year.

Will we, once again this year, have a simultaneous fishing season, meaning when the crabbing season begins at the same time for everyone in all the provinces?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you for the question.

The Judy LaMarsh icebreaker definitely makes a strong contribution to opening New Brunswick's ports, because we know that it's preferable for all the fishers to begin at the same time. This spring, the season began earlier than in previous years, but I'm going to ask the deputy minister to give us the exact opening dates

[Annette Gibbons]

They were announced for two regions last week. The others will follow.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Deputy Minister, I don't want to spend too much time on it, but the fishery opening date has not yet been announced for this year. Normally, the ice committee, as we call it, meets with officials and fleet delegates.

Once again, Minister, I'd like to thank you for the efforts that were made this year. If you would like to answer my next question, feel free to do so. Otherwise, the officials with you could answer it.

Crab and lobster fishing licences are becoming increasingly expensive. They can now cost between $10 million and $15 million. There are even rumours to the effect that it might reach $20 million. For comparison, when my father fished lobster, a licence cost $75,000 or $100,000. Now it has got to $1.5 million in most instances.

For a number of years now, more and more crabbing licences held by people in New Brunswick are repurchased by people from elsewhere. The department's officials appear to be turning a blind eye to it, and hiding behind policies and what are called residency criteria. Let me give you some context.

Someone in New Brunswick who wants to buy a crab fishing licence in Quebec must have been a resident of Quebec for two years. However, when someone from Quebec, Prince Edward Island or Nova Scotia wants to buy a crab fishing licence in New Brunswick, they only need to have resided in New Brunswick for six months. This residency criteria disparity allows many people in other provinces to acquire fishing licences in our region, New Brunswick. These licences therefore now belong to people who live somewhere other than in our region, which is extremely harmful to the coastal communities.

The intent of the new Fisheries Act was to enable owner-operators to harvest within the terms of their licence, but the spirit of the act was also that these licences should remain in our communities. And yet there appear to be more and more licences leaving our communities, and it's that residency criterion that is making it so easy to sell these licences.

Minister, is your department prepared to change the residency criterion for New Brunswick? If so, when can we expect it?

[Joyce Murray, Liberal, Vancouver Quadra, BC]

Thank you for that question.

Firstly, the licence market is not determined by Fisheries and Oceans Canada. As the fisheries become more profitable, the licence prices go up.

As for harmonizing the residency criteria among the provinces, my officials may have some information about that. From my perspective, that may be something set by the provinces themselves. If it is something within the control of DFO, we would certainly look at your concern and provide a response.

[Niall O'Dea, Senior Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy, Department of Fisheries and Oceans]

Briefly, we have an existing licence transfer policy that has been accepted by the industry. They have not, at this point, asked to modify that policy, but we are certainly willing to review it, should that request come forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for six minutes or less.