Fisheries Committee on Feb. 10th, 2022

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Under the legislative process, you have the right to fish capelin in June, whereas in reality, capelin can be fished in the St. Lawrence River in April. Since this is a federal jurisdiction and there may be a lack of understanding of these two realities, we aren't in a position to give a fishing licence at the right time to this small, very targeted category of fishers who use an authentic fishing technique that we want to preserve. It is local and economical.

[Adam Burns]

I'm sorry that I didn't understand your question the first time; I understand it now. Unfortunately I don't have the capelin scientific survey information readily available right now. This is something I think we'd have to follow up with you on.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I appreciate it very much, Mr. Burns.

I'll ask you one last question.

Quebec is willing to share in the management of its marine and biomarine resources. Is DFO open to that possibility?

[Adam Burns]

That would not be a question that I would be able to speak to as an official. My role is to administer the fisheries management framework in the manner it's currently structured.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I understand.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens. Your time is up.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you. Following up on Mr. Perkins' question to Ms. Switucha, I'm wondering if you can expand a little on the 4,000 seafood items you said are tested each year. Can you give us a sense of the total volume of fish we're talking about that are coming into Canada, so we can get a sense of the scale and also how this compares to other food items that CFIA inspects?

[Tammy Switucha]

I can't speak to the volume, I'm sorry. That's information I don't have available at the moment, and in terms of our sampling of other food products, that's something I will have to follow up with the committee on with further information.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, because for me it's just out of context, so having some further information would be really important in helping me to understand what we're talking about.

My next question could go either to CFIA or DFO. To my knowledge, the USA has a secretariat set up for 19 different agencies to help enforce traceability standards.

It's great to see the CFIA and DFO here together today. Can you speak to other departments that would need to be involved in Canada throughout the supply chain to make sure we get this right, and do you think we would benefit from a secretariat similar to the one we see in the U.S.?

[Tammy Switucha]

I can start that answer. I would ask my colleague to follow up if there's something else.

To my understanding, that secretariat in the U.S. was struck under the leadership and mandate of fisheries management in the United States and pulled in agencies and departments from across the spectrum.

It's difficult for me to comment further, but from CFIA's perspective, we appreciate the participation of our colleagues from DFO as well as Agriculture and Agri-Food. I think we could potentially benefit from the participation of Environment, maybe, but for the most part, I think you have the partners that are needed to be able to work with us—in addition, of course, to the other levels of government that are equally responsible for parts of this issue.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

I'll see if I have time for one last question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You actually don't. You're out of time, Ms. Barron. I'm sorry.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Okay. Thank you. It was worth a try.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Oh, definitely. If you don't try, you'll never know.

Mr. Perkins, you have five minutes or less, please.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Again, this is for the CFIA. You mentioned that you have this escalating form of sanction or penalty when companies aren't complying. It goes from a stern letter, I guess, up to licence seizure, if I heard you correctly. How many licences have you seized?

[Tammy Switucha]

It's my understanding that since our safe food for Canadians regulations came into force, there have been multiple for all foods. For fish and seafood specifically, we have had 20 licences either suspended or revoked since 2019.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

As part of your consultation, obviously you're studying all the various different forms of boat-to-plate systems around the world. We have talked a lot about the EU and their systems. What do you think are gaps in our system that the EU does much better and that you think should be considered here?

[Tammy Switucha]

I can speak only from the perspective of my expertise, which is for food safety. When we compare the food safety objectives and requirements between Canada and the EU, they are very similar. We both follow the international standards of Codex Alimentarius. We both have relatively new and modern food safety requirements for foods that are imported, exported and traded within our country. We align very closely from a food safety perspective.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Is it part of your study, if we are expanding the boat-to-plate system and the recommendations that you will make, to understand the financial impact on each part of the supply chain of implementing a higher level of traceability from harvesters through to processors to retailers?

[Tammy Switucha]

That's certainly a very interesting part of the issue. From a CFIA perspective, when we develop any sort of regulatory proposal, we are required to look at the cost benefit of any new regulatory proposal. Beyond that, for non-regulatory proposals, or ones that are done through policy, that's why we work very closely with our colleagues from DFO and Agriculture and Agri-Food: to understand the economic benefits as well as the impacts on the industry.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I'm still trying to understand how far back in the chain we go now. If we as a committee are going to recommend improvements to the system, it seems, if I'm understanding right, that DFO is looking only at certain aspects of both domestic catch and origin authenticity, and only a very few specific countries, and CFIA's not looking very far back in the supply chain—back only one.

Is it fair to say that you're really focused just on testing the quality of what's coming in as opposed to the authenticity back?

[Tammy Switucha]

No. In fact that's incorrect.

If I could correct that statement, the CFIA's responsibility goes all the way back to where the food originated within Canadian jurisdiction. In the context of fish and seafood, traceability has to occur all the way, as the boat, because they are subject to licensing. For a company, to put it plainly, that is licensed with CFIA for its activities, we have the responsibility for that oversight.

When I refer to—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I have limited time.

You have no way to audit beyond the Canadian company, going back. You're not auditing regularly to see whether what's being told to us, or Canadian consumers, is true, from the origin.

[Tammy Switucha]

We do foreign country audits on an annual basis. Those are always based on various factors.

Legally, we cannot take action against any company outside of Canada. That's why we work closely with the foreign competent authorities, the other governments, to share that information, so that they may consider whether they need to take action.

We do foreign audits in all types of foods around the world.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Perkins. There were only about 80 seconds left.

We'll go now to Mr. Hardie, for five minutes or less, please.