Fisheries Committee on Feb. 10th, 2022

[Tammy Switucha]

Our authority for sampling lies within the responsibility to ensure that food that is traded between provinces or exported or imported is safe to eat, so it's difficult to say whether we would or wouldn't, depending on the destination of that product. However, from solely a conservation area, no, we would not.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

I have one quick question here before I run out of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

I'm sorry, Mr. Arnold. You are out of time,

We'll now go to Mr. Morrissey, for five minutes or less, please.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

My question is for CFIA. In the areas of wholesale processed product, retail and food services, which of those categories would experience the most misrepresentation of the product?

[Tammy Switucha]

I can answer that question only based on the recent study we conducted. As mentioned, the samples we picked up at retail, foods that are actually packaged in the store, had the highest level of non-compliance.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

My understanding is you do not do food service.

[Tammy Switucha]

We do in certain circumstances, depending on the level of trade that the food service undertakes. Generally speaking, no, we don't, but there are very small examples of some food service businesses that trade interprovincially that we would have jurisdiction for. However, those are very limited.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Okay. You referenced that 20 licences were revoked or suspended. Could you give us an example of the size of the operation? What would it be doing? Just pick an example. I'm curious.

[Tammy Switucha]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I don't have that information at hand. We would need to follow up on the question.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Could you provide the committee with a breakdown or define who the 20 licences were? What would be the face of that identity?

[Tammy Switucha]

We'll do our best.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I believe my question is for DFO. It is in follow-up to some of the questions by Mr. Perkins and Madame Desbiens.

How could you explain to the committee the situation whereby somebody purchased what was labelled as local cod and then found out when they got inside that it was sourced from Russia?

How did it get missed? That's a fairly substantive difference.

I'm going to direct the question to DFO. If DFO does it only from the boat to the wharf and then CFIA goes in, how would a situation like that occur? Please explain.

[Adam Burns]

In that instance, I believe it is a food labelling issue. My colleagues from CFIA could probably respond to that question.

[Tammy Switucha]

This is a problem. We don't dispute that. Within the authorities that we currently have, the CFIA monitors and does very specific oversight of importers of fish and seafood products. We use all the tools that we have under the law to be able to do that regulatory oversight and take enforcement, but we can't be everywhere all the time. Therefore, a lot of our work is risk-based and based on intelligence—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Then it would be fair for me to conclude that there are gaps in the system that are allowing this, and it is a substantive gap that would allow that misrepresentation.

Mr. Burns, you referenced a robust harvest enforcement regime under DFO from catch certification. Could you elaborate and describe to us what that robust harvest enforcement regime is that ensures that all the product is what it's supposed to be?

[Adam Burns]

I think you are referring to the enforcement and the post-certificate auditing routine. We have a specific team of conservation protection officers whose role is to perform an audit and verification function, which occurs after the certificates have been issued. It is intended to assess the chain of custody within that entity to ensure it is indeed a fish product that has come from the particular vessel and licence identified, that the licence was valid and active, that there was quota available and all of those sorts of things that ensure it was indeed sourced from a regulated fishery.

That audit and verification process occurs on a regular basis following the issuance of the certificate. In some instances, those certificates need to be issued within two hours because of the live nature of some of the products that are being exported.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for two and a half minutes, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank my colleagues who have taken over my examples. It means a lot to me. It's very relevant.

Earlier, you said that you rely heavily on the various infrastructures of each province and Quebec, such as MAPAQ and the municipalities.

Do the various bodies know exactly what role they play through your department? Has that been communicated to them? Do they receive directives? Do you have specific directives to give them regarding food traceability? When do you stop your work and when do they start theirs?

[Tammy Switucha]

For any food safety investigation, which includes misrepresentation as well, we have very good co-operation with our provincial and territorial colleagues.

When we're part of an investigation, we share information between each level of government on a regular basis. Many of the recalls and notices that you see are the result of inter-jurisdictional co-operation, because we're all working together for the purpose of protecting Canadians and public health.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

We're getting to the end.

What are you missing in this context? Have you identified any gaps? How do you plan to address them? Are you short of resources or labour? Should scientists be approached more? Should you do better sampling?

In short, what do you think could improve things?

[Tammy Switucha]

As I mentioned earlier, it's fair to say that CFIA cannot be everywhere and everything all at once, so we do rely on those partnerships. It's a complex waterfront—excuse the pun—of the issue. I can't speak to the funding for the gaps, but the funding we have received through budget 2019 has allowed us to expand and enhance our activities for investigating misrepresentation and fraud.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I always appreciate a good pun. Thank you for that.

To my knowledge, one-sixth of food illnesses in Canada are traced back to seafood. Has the CFIA looked at other jurisdictions, such as those in the EU, to see how food illnesses from seafood have changed as they implement stronger regulations?

[Tammy Switucha]

Information like that is always used by CFIA as part of our risk analysis. We always look at findings and results from other jurisdictions to inform our risk analysis when it comes to the protection of Canadians and food safety.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I have a follow-up to Mr. Arnold's question. It sounds like Canada is willfully providing a market for illegal products due to these jurisdictional gaps.

Can you confirm how much money DFO is spending each year to support international partners to address illegal, unregulated and unreported fishing?