Fisheries Committee on April 17th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you. That was perfect timing.

[Aaju Peter]

I hit the five-minute mark.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Yes, it was dead on. Thank you.

We will now go to Mr. Hutchings, for five minutes or less, please.

[Keith Hutchings, Managing Director, Canadian Centre for Fisheries Innovation]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for the opportunity to present on the study. I certainly want to recognize the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans and the work you're doing. I look forward to your final report and recommendations.

I'm the managing director of the Canadian Centre for Fisheries Innovation, which is a separate incorporated entity of Memorial University in Newfoundland and Labrador, with a mandate driven by an industry-led board of directors representing harvesters, processing and the aquaculture industry. The centre is a conduit between the fishing industries, academia, science and research institutions, and companies that support the industry. We are an enabler organization leading applied research, innovation and technology in the Canadian seafood sector.

CCFI responds to R and D needs in the harvesting, processing and aquaculture sectors by developing and leading projects, big and small, and transitioning quickly to meet emerging opportunities or challenges. It demonstrates leadership in equity and diversity, and it fosters understanding and a shared approach with indigenous peoples and their communities. Finally, CCFI supports sustainable fisheries and enables industry adaptation to climate change.

Your study of the ecosystem impacts and the management of pinniped populations is needed more than ever in light of the growing abundance of pinnipeds, especially harp, grey and harbour seals. I would suggest the understanding of the correlation—the cause and effect relationships—between the pinniped predation on various fish species and the effect on commercially harvested species and other species in decline is gravely lacking in science and thus in the public discourse.

From a Canadian perspective, I think we need to ask if we are willing to take on the investment and commitment to truly collect the data needed, and the research and science, to achieve the understanding required to allow resource management reflective of those findings. We are facing an unprecedented ecosystem predation issue related to the overpopulation, the amount of fish being consumed and the effect on the ecosystem.

I think your motion speaks well to the topics that need attention, such as ecosystem impacts of pinniped overpopulation. We need multi-year, multispecies spatial and migratory research. Short-term ad hoc stomach content research is not adequate. So many variables are not being considered, such as migratory patterns, changes in water temperature and even the effects on predated fish species and other species that are available for predation.

On domestic and international marketing potential, as an example, Canada consumes very little seal as a food source, but we try to convince the world to continue or to begin that consumption. We need to invest in the research on meat preparation, diet and the nutritional value of meat and other attributes; in the expansion as a food source in international markets; and, as we have said, in full utilization in any harvest.

We need active management—real-time management with long-term supported research coordinated with industry, science and supportive organizations that have no stake or bias, other than to facilitate research and data and communicate findings for use in resource management.

On being socially acceptable, we need to view this industry a little differently now. Regarding the medical and pharmaceutical attributes of seal, the natural ingredients, the new generation views as key to a healthy lifestyle natural occurrences in nature, which fits perfectly with a renewed view of the attributes of this industry.

I'll also quickly reference the Atlantic seal task force report. It talked about many similar aspects related to seal diet, distribution and migration patterns, a better understanding of the relationship between seals and commercial fish stocks, and how all of us need to work collaboratively and seek out other science from other nations as well.

There were four points identified that are quite relevant: seal diet, distribution, relationships I've talked about and working collaboratively with all industry partners.

I would conclude by stating that everyone must be engaged in the research process going forward, supported by Fisheries and Oceans Canada and used to make resource management decisions reflective of the significant predation occurring in the overall ecosystem and how it is linked. We need to rethink how we collect data and science to support the work of DFO. We certainly collectively need a commitment to act.

I thank you for the opportunity to present to you today and to share some thoughts with your committee. I look forward to any questions you may have as we move forward.

Thank you, Chair, very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hutchings.

We'll now go to Mr. Pardy for five minutes or less, please.

[Craig Pardy, Member, District of Bonavista, House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador]

Thank you for the opportunity, Chairman McDonald and the committee, to address you today. It was good to see you, Mr. Chair, in the House of Assembly the week before last.

Today, I would like to make three points.

First, let me begin where I must, which is by discussing the issue of jurisdiction. For centuries, Newfoundland and Labrador had one of the most important fisheries in the world. Evidence was provided by Sir Albert J. Walsh's “Report of the Newfoundland Fisheries Development Committee” in 1953, which was a joint study between the Government of Canada and the then Government of Newfoundland.

A line was drawn in the sand prior to our entry into Confederation, which placed jurisdiction for fisheries and oceans with the federal government rather than provincial governments. No exception was made for our province with respect to the vast ocean territory and fisheries that we as a country had brought with us into Canada. No other province in Canada lacks jurisdiction over its most important resource industry.

In the mid-eighties, the Government of Canada chose to make a partial exception for our province by agreeing to the Atlantic Accord, which treats subsea oil and gas resources around Newfoundland and Labrador differently. This allowed our province and Ottawa to manage the resources jointly under the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Offshore Petroleum Board.

We have long called for a similar arrangement with respect to fisheries management to give our province a seat at the decision-making table and a direct say in the running of our most important industry. For years, we have been told it cannot be done, but of course it can be done, as the Atlantic Accord proved. You are the ones in a position to facilitate it, so I urge you to recommend that joint fisheries management for Newfoundland and Labrador become a priority. We have no illusions that it would be a panacea for the challenges we face. Indeed, it would bring new challenges. Regardless, it would be far better to be at the table making decisions than to be making presentations to those who hold all the power.

Second, regarding pinnipeds, forgive me if I simply call these predators “seals”, as most people do. Seal predation is an issue for many fishing jurisdictions around the world, including our own. How great is the problem? It depends on who you ask. If you ask fish harvesters and seal harvesters, who have witnessed the large number of seals around our coasts and up into our rivers and who have seen the content of the stomachs or the partially eaten carcasses of fish, seal predation is an enormous problem. If you ask fisheries scientists, you might or might not get the same answer. Why is that? The vast wild ocean is not a controlled laboratory environment.

Harvesters are of one voice when they tell us that there are still too many seals consuming too many fish and altering the ecosystem. The level of predation is making any prospect of fish stock rebuilding impossible. There must be a program for removals. Anything less is an abdication of responsibility.

The last thing I'd like to address is closely related to the first two. That's the issue of the severe overpopulation of seals. Whether it's harp seals off the northeast coast, grey seals in the Gulf of St. Lawrence or the numerous other species of pinnipeds that populate our open water, our coastlines and, yes, our rivers, if nothing is done to reduce the overpopulation, we can say goodbye to ever rebuilding our cod stocks and maintaining the balance of our pelagic species like capelin, herring and mackerel. Predation of salmon by seals of various species in the estuaries and rivers throughout the east coast is an equally critical issue and likely an important issue along the coast of British Columbia as well.

Glenn Blackwood, the co-chair of the most recent report of the Atlantic seal science task team, reported at the federal Seal Summit in St. John's, Newfoundland, on November 8 and 9, which you, Mr. Chair, attended. The report estimated that total harp seal consumption in 2J3KL, which stretches from Labrador down to the Avalon Peninsula, “during 2014 was estimated to be approximately 3.2 million metric tons.... The same year, all commercial landings in Newfoundland and Labrador totalled 265,000 metric tons.” That's 12 times more than our commercial fishery, which is valued at $1.3 billion.

Mr. Blackwood said, in responding to a question, that the science on seal diets is woefully inadequate.

Ed Martin, an attendee at the Seal Summit, asked the chair of the seal task team, Glenn Blackwood, “Seals are having a devastating effect on our ecosystem. Isn't the harvest of seals essential and no longer a consideration?” The chair's answer was, “Agreed”.

The Department of Fisheries and Oceans prides itself on two primary strategies for fisheries management: the precautionary approach and the ecosystem approach. We are in the position we are right now, with regard to seals, because DFO ignored those two approaches for responsible fisheries management. That is their very own policy, and now their very own failure.

The bottom line on seals when it comes to the jurisdictional boundary is this. As long as there is nothing done to bring the seal population back into balance, the minister and the department are using only the “hope and prayer” approach.

Since 1949 the responsibility has rested squarely on the desk of the federal government. The absence of action is an action in itself. The absence of action is an abdication of the federal government’s duty. Removing seals from the ecosystem must be done. You can count all the seals you want, but counting does not remove them.

I look forward to doing my best to answer questions you may have.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Pardy.

We'll get right to those questions now.

We'll go to Mr. Small for six minutes or less.

Go ahead, please.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for joining us in the second half here.

Twenty-five years ago, Canada was the top fish and seafood producer in the world. Now we rank number eight. The goal under the blue economy is to double our seafood production and to get up to being the number three producer in the world by 2040. Only 50% of the seafood produced in the world is wild-sourced.

I'd like to ask Mr. Hutchings this: Is it possible for us to achieve any of the goals under the blue economy and grow our wild production with the pinniped predation that we have right now?

[Keith Hutchings]

Thanks for the question.

I think, within the context of what you're describing, the answer is no if the current pattern continues. We have an ecosystem. We have tremendous predation. We need to isolate that predation and talk about how we relieve some of that pressure on both species we're harvesting today and species we want to harvest in the future.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Your organization is involved in product development and whatnot. Do you think, if they are marketed to the world properly, we have a slate of products ready to go right now so we can undertake full utilization and bring the seal population down to where it needs to be?

[Keith Hutchings]

I think there are many entrepreneurs and businesses out there that have done tremendous work. They have invested in their own research to develop those projects. I think a lot more needs to be done. If we're looking at full utilization of a seal and how we market that and the uniqueness, maybe, of the meat content and other attributes, there's a lot of work to be done.

As I think one of the previous presenters talked about, going from zero to 60 immediately has its challenges. That's where there needs to be investment.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Hutchings.

Can I have your thoughts on that, Mr. Pardy?

[Craig Pardy]

Yes. I totally concur with Mr. Hutchings. I think the data speaks for itself, MP Small.

When we look at 2J3KL and know that 3.2 million metric tons of fish is consumed by the seals and that we harvest 250,000 metric tons, that's 12 times that much. If you really want to double our food production by 2040, then we're really going to have to look at who is harvesting and taking the fish and the resources out of our waters and our ecosystems.

I would think that the previous seal task team would have stated that it's clearly predation that's taking the vast product out of our system, and I say that in Newfoundland and Labrador, where we have a significant number or percentage of our homes that would be food-insecure homes, as we speak today.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Pardy, from your perspective as a member of the House of Assembly, how do you think that the policies of the provincial government in terms of no new tanneries.... There's one tannery in Newfoundland and Labrador. Processors can't ship out untanned skins. Do you think that's right?

We're not increasing opportunity if we can't let some sort of capitalism take place in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Do you know of any circumstances this past winter whereby harvesters and potential processors tried to open, maybe, a new processing facility and were basically stonewalled?

[Craig Pardy]

MP Small, we certainly need to look into that and do our part in making sure that we fully utilize and create an industry where we can take the seals and utilize them.

One of your previous speakers in the first hour mentioned that, if we create the industry and we create the markets for this product, you're going to find that industry will be jumping on board in order to harvest and to get involved in the sealing industry.

That is something provincial. We have a lot of work to do provincially, but I would think that there's been a malaise. Other than studies that we've seen over the last number of decades, there's been a malaise in the sealing predation issue. We seem to be going from one study to another. All the time, we see the growth in our sealing population, whether it be the grey seals or the harp seals.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you.

To Ms. Peter, on the federal government's response to the decline in Inuit markets in the EU, how does that fit with reconciliation for Inuit peoples?

[Aaju Peter]

Reconciliation is reconcili-action. You have to have action. We need to see a lot more action from the federal department, which is the only body that can speak on this issue because, as a territory, we don't have the power. We would like to keep the dialogue open as part of reconciling what has been before.

I concur with the predation, and I concur with taking the overpopulation of the seals. In my opinion, if we could give, let's say, a million seals to be shared among the 26 Inuit communities where you've taken the seals and then develop them for our market, that will be part of reconstituting, reinstituting and regiving some of the money that has already been lost.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Ms. Peter.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Small. You've gone a good bit over, but I'll pick that up from you somewhere along the way.

We'll now go to Mr. Hanley for six minutes or less, please.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

Thank you very much to all the witnesses.

I want to continue on the same line of questioning.

Ms. Peter, I'm a fellow northerner, although from the western side of the Arctic. I'm from Yukon territory.

I'm really interested in the relationship that you point out between overseas markets, particularly the EU, and local food security. I think this is really important to flesh out, identify and document.

I wonder if you could clarify. Given that you talked about hunting seals as a major part of Inuit lifestyle for thousands of years, can you clarify the relationship between market access to EU and the effect on local harvesting and distribution of seals for Inuit in Nunavut?

[Aaju Peter]

Mr. Hanley, thank you for that question. Since we started travelling to Europe—first to Holland in 2007—we already knew as sealers that it was not just about Inuit sealing and it wasn't just about Atlantic sealing. It was the image being showcased. That was the image being shown on television and in ads to create money and funds for the organizations.

That image cost our economy. People couldn't tell in Europe whether a seal was hunted from other places or whether it was hunted by Inuit.

Our approach has always been that in Canada we have to be united. We have to have one face where we say that, whether the seal is caught here or there, we are all sealers, and the bad taste and image affects us all, which is what happened and is still going on to this day. Inuit hunters and Inuit communities depend on all the work that has been done and that is being done by commercial sealers. We are one family.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I noted also that you're applauding the idea of ecosystem management of the ocean, but you also noted, of course, the exploding population of seals in the north. Can you elaborate on this? How much is based on local science and local observation? Is Inuit traditional knowledge contributing to that assessment of the exploding seal population? Furthermore, is the TK aspect being recognized enough? Is Inuit on-the-ground assessment being incorporated into Canada's assessment of seal populations?

[Aaju Peter]

I will answer your last question first, but I don't know what “TK assessment” is.

[Brendan Hanley, Liberal, Yukon, YT]

I mean traditional knowledge as part of assessing, assuming that is part of your assessment of seal overpopulation.

[Aaju Peter]

I understand that under the Nunavut Land Claims Agreement, the federal minister has to take into consideration the knowledge and input from the communities in assessing anything to do with oceans and waters and management of seals, for instance. I'm not part of that, because I'm not employed by and I'm not part of the hunters and trappers organizations that would give their input.

What I do know is that a traditional Inuit saying is that an overpopulation is not a healthy population. When the animal rights groups went out to save the seals, they thought that if we didn't kill or harvest the seals, that would be a good thing. But as we are seeing now, in 2023, we have an overpopulation, and we know that is not good for us.

Over the years since 1981, when we would go sailing down Frobisher Bay—a 250-kilometre-long bay—we used to be able to see maybe harp seals here and there, a very minor herd. Today, the minute you go out in the bay and try to sail over, you have herds and pods of harp seals all over the place.

As we have heard, the ringed seals that we depend on for our food are intimidated. They travel singularly, and a herd of harp seals is vicious, so it makes it even harder for us to harvest our food.