Evidence of meeting #68 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was companies.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Bay of Fundy Inshore Fishermen's Association
I was referencing trust agreements, which are used to purchase lobster licences in different LFAs with a nominal owner. These allow vertically integrated companies that want to buy, process and export lobster to own trap-to-table access.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Can these agreements actually influence the ownership of the core licence—the fisher who is on the boat?
President, Bay of Fundy Inshore Fishermen's Association
Not lawfully, but they certainly do—
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
I realize not lawfully. You said that this is occurring through the trust agreements.
President, Bay of Fundy Inshore Fishermen's Association
There has been a lot of good work taking place over the last few years—
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
This was supposed to be outlawed under the owner-operator policy, was it not?
President, Bay of Fundy Inshore Fishermen's Association
Yes. It always was unlawful, but changes to the act have been made to make it harder.
What I was referencing was the government's intent to terminate the licences that are found to be in violation, when clearly the purpose of the changes to the act were to improve the situation for new entrants to the fishery.
If the government was to terminate and vaporize lobster access in the community, not only do the new entrants to the fishery lose, but also trap builders, fuel suppliers, grocery stores and all the other related industries.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Okay.
I want to go to Mr. MacPherson or Ms. Aylward.
Is this occurring in P.E.I. as well? Do you have any knowledge of this occurring?
Senior Advisor, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
I can't name any specifics right now. Certainly as the price of fleets increases, I guess our concern is certainly on the financing and making sure that there are adequate resources there to finance these purchases.
I think it was mentioned on an earlier committee that the financing of fleets should be opened up for fishing organizations we're supporting. We were really more focused on lock-tight arrangements with processors and suppliers or family members, and not opening it up to a wide spectrum.
That's one of our concerns right now. It's that there are a lot of options there.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Okay, good.
Mr. MacPherson, you referenced naming Canadian seafood as a “critical resource”. Could you expand a bit on what benefit that would be to the fisher and to Canada?
If you have more detail, there are a couple of items on which I would like you to submit information to the committee, but you can speak to that one and also on lowering the threshold for review under corporate affairs.
Briefly, on critical resource, that's the first time I've heard that comment.
Senior Advisor, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
I was reading an article just the other day about another country trying to corner the cobalt market to supply the batteries for the EV market. I think we have to think of food in that context.
As I mentioned earlier, I think there's a fairly good balance, but there's a lot of very rapid buyout of family operations and a lot of amalgamation happening at a very quick pace.
Senior Advisor, Prince Edward Island Fishermen's Association
Yes, but ultimately that translates down to the harvester level in terms of less competition and perhaps more onerous restrictions.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
I'm not sure of my time, Chair, but I'm sure you'll remind me. I want to ask a quick question of Mr. Bonnell.
Mr. Bonnell, in your comments you referenced that your employees were being targeted. Could you expand on that? It concerned me when you made the statement that employees would be targeted. How were they being targeted, and why?
Vice-President, Sustainability and Engagement, Ocean Choice International L.P.
The best way to respond to that is that as a business we get targeted because we're a large company. It could be the employees or it could be the company itself. We're quite proud of the fact that we're a family-run business. Martin and Blaine Sullivan come from a fishing family. Their father is a fisherman. I came out of a small boat fishery. We built this company from the ground up. We're quite proud of what we've achieved.
We are a larger company and we know there's a responsibility that comes with that, but we feel we're unfairly targeted as a company, given the number of people we employ in the region and that we take the harvester product to market and provide a fair market value in most years. This year, 2023, is a challenging year, and we all accept that, but we feel we're unfairly targeted as a company in the region.
Hopefully that clarifies it.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Thank you.
I want to go back to Mr. Sproul, and maybe Mr. MacPherson could get in.
You referenced corporate concentration. I hear a lot in the community among fishers about fewer buyers who are independent, and we hear a lot about our favourite topic, the Chinese interest in the purchasing of lobster-buying operations. What would you recommend government do?
The processing plants and the buyers are all regulated and controlled by provincial governments. Have you expressed a concern to provincial governments about this ongoing corporate concentration at that level? If you did, could you provide that to the committee for this report?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Your time is up, Mr. Morrissey. I would suggest to Mr. MacPherson or who is there with him that they could respond in writing to the committee on that particular point.
Mrs. Desbiens, you have six minutes.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank the witnesses who are here today.
I'm going to go to you, Mr. Bernatchez.
You are concerned, and I understand that. In your testimony, you mentioned that Canada, particularly the Canadian fishing industry, of which Quebec is a large part, is paying the price for a certain lack of power over our neighbours to the south, the United States. You mentioned the right whale and mackerel fisheries and the seal hunt. All of this is worrisome. The fishing industry is destabilized. However, we are seeing foreign companies set up shop here.
How do you think we can assess the risk that fishing expertise will disappear from our regions? Is the risk of it disappearing great enough for the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, or DFO, to take drastic measures to reverse what you are talking about?
General Manager, Association des capitaines-propriétaires de la Gaspésie
Every time a fishery is weakened by DFO's interventions, necessary or not, in order to have it bend under foreign pressure, business owners may be inclined to throw in the towel. It can also happen, as is the case now, that crews of certain fisheries flee the boats because the catches aren't there and, consequently, neither are the revenues.
As soon as a fishery is weakened in some way, there is a risk that, in some communities, some of the expertise will leave those areas one at a time.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
What will we do if we lose the next generation and the processing plants, with their long tentacles, can no longer find the local know-how and expertise?
Is that an important argument that should be made to DFO?
General Manager, Association des capitaines-propriétaires de la Gaspésie
Fishing is a well-orchestrated dance among many dancers. If some of them don't want to take part in the dance, it may weaken the others. Processors are among the players whose contribution is important to the entire industry.
I won't hide the fact that it is increasingly difficult to attract the next generation of fishers. The cost of acquiring fishing licences has skyrocketed, so those who want to get into this kind of business now have to assume a very significant financial risk.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
Does the loss of this expertise open the door to foreigners, factory ships and the takeover of our seafood products at the expense of the regions?
General Manager, Association des capitaines-propriétaires de la Gaspésie
As I said in my opening remarks, we don't necessarily have any examples of foreign companies that have slipped into capture activities. It's much more subtle than that.
If we were to get to a point where commercial licence holders had to give up, it could open the door to foreign interests becoming partners in local companies in certain fishing enterprises.