Evidence of meeting #69 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was quota.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you.
I'll turn my questions now to Ms. Strobel.
You mentioned a term, “disproportionate de-risking”. Could you elaborate on that a bit?
May 18th, 2023 / 4:40 p.m.
Co-Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Skipper Otto Community Supported Fishery
Sure. I said before that fishing is inherently risky. We export most of our seafood in Canada, so we are at the mercy of global markets, of currency exchange rates, of the wild ecosystem in terms of what's provided. So it is risky.
The current system is designed so that those who have deeper pockets are de-risked more than those who are less advantaged. I think that's the fault of the policy. It's not the fault of those with deeper pockets. They're operating legally within the framework that's been set up by this government, but the government has established a framework that benefits those who have deeper pockets.
I think we need to look very hard at the social, economic and cultural outcomes that we desire from the fishery and then make changes to share that risk. This is why the 2019 report was so aptly named “Sharing Risks and Benefits”.
I agree with Mr. Christensen that if we implemented those 20 recommendations, we would be so much farther along. It kind of boggles the mind that we're here still having the same conversation five years later.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Mel Arnold Conservative North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you very much.
I'll turn to Mr. Mirau now, if I could.
Mr. Mirau, in your opening, you mentioned that there are very few processing facilities remaining on the B.C. coast. Why is that and what impact is that having on the small communities and harvesters?
4:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Aero Trading Co. Ltd.
It's lack of access to the resource or a lack of the resource itself. I think that quite often people think that there are always salmon left in the ocean, but that's not entirely true. There are always years when there are massive amounts of salmon, but DFO doesn't really do proper stock assessment anymore so we don't always get the fish that are available.
I'm not going to say that all the fish stocks are healthy, but with lack of access and lack of fish stocks, fish plants have just left. We're the only full-fledged fish plant left in Prince Rupert now. It's kind of tragic.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Arnold. You're right on the mark.
We'll now go to Mr. Hanley for five minutes or less, please.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT
Thank you.
Thank you to all three witnesses for appearing. I'm sorry that I was late arriving from the House of Commons and missed Dr. Christensen's speech, but I'm catching up on the notes in between things.
Dr. Christensen, maybe I'll start with you. Maybe you can help to clarify. Forgive me if there is some repetition.
You discussed DFO's over-concentration on conservation, yet at the same time you point out that the DFO legacy, I guess, is that of going for more efficiency and therefore more corporate control. How do those two reconcile? To me, they don't seem quite compatible.
4:45 p.m.
Professor, As an Individual
That's a difficult question, because I don't see why it's not compatible. I'm sorry. I can't see why.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT
Perhaps I could just ask you to clarify the comment on the DFO's over-concentration on conservation and how perhaps that has led to this situation that we're in now on the west coast.
4:45 p.m.
Professor, As an Individual
There were big problems back in the eighties and nineties with overcapacity in many parts of the world. DFO instigated policies that led to fleet reduction. In doing that, it favoured the large-scale, easy-to-manage fleets. This is one reason why we have lost the small-scale fleets on the west coast.
That fleet is easier to manage and, yes, it is more efficient, but that's being done at the cost of the communities that cannot survive. In many fisheries, DFO's policy leads to extremely cautious approaches to management and to lower catches than could sustainably be taken from these resources.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT
Okay. It's fleet reduction you're talking about, but it's inequitable fleet reduction that is the net result.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT
That's perfect. Thank you.
Mr. Mirau, I wanted to ask you about good corporate practice. You've talked about your own company. It sounds like you're very conscientious.
You also make a distinction between a Canadian company that's foreign-owned and, presumably, perhaps, a foreign company that's foreign-owned. What would you say are the good corporate practices you're demonstrating that other companies could emulate?
4:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Aero Trading Co. Ltd.
I view ours as a Canadian company. We have all Canadian management and Canadian employees. We exist in the communities and employ people in the communities where we operate our [Technical difficulty—Editor]. I have bonus systems for all of our staff. I finance our fishermen. I get them diversified across multiple fisheries. I don't make them sell their fish to us. Many of them have their own dock sales and sell to other places. I pay a lot of taxes—
4:45 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.
We are being told that that interpreters are having trouble working.
4:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Aero Trading Co. Ltd.
Am I speaking too quickly?
4:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Aero Trading Co. Ltd.
Okay.
Most simply, I would say that the corporate practice I most enjoy applying is that any licences that we have purchased, I do not [Technical difficulty—Editor] a rate of return. I'm making investments for future fish production. What I get out of it by providing very reasonable leases to my fishermen—
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Caroline Desbiens Bloc Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
There is no interpretation, Mr. Chair.
4:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Aero Trading Co. Ltd.
—is a loyal fleet. I have very little turnover, because I help them be successful.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Mr. Mirau, I have to interrupt you. It's still not coming through to the interpreters to translate.
Try moving the boom up a little higher.
4:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Aero Trading Co. Ltd.
I apologize.
What makes us successful, and what I am the most proud of with our licence ownership, is that I am not doing it for a direct rate of return or to control my fishermen. I help my fishermen buy licences, and what I get out of it in return is a very loyal fleet, loyal staff and loyal customers.
I don't have fishing agreements with people. I don't have any turnover of fishermen—hardly at all. I have long-term fishermen, long-term staff and long-term customers. It's very simple, actually. If you treat people fairly, they will treat you fairly back and that's the long-term success of my company.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Brendan Hanley Liberal Yukon, YT
I will just follow up with a quick question, because I don't think I have a lot of time left with all the interruptions.
Mr. Mirau, would you say that your practice is the exception or the rule?
4:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Aero Trading Co. Ltd.
I'm not sure. You'd have to ask my fishermen. I have a large fleet, so we must be doing something right.
I can't speak for other companies. I'm sorry.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ken McDonald
Thank you, Mr. Hanley.
We'll go to Madame Desbiens now, for two and a half minutes or less, please.