Fisheries Committee on June 8th, 2023

[Gregory McClinchey]

I think it's fair to say that there has been a lot of damage. As Mr. Lambe has already alluded to and as Vice-Chair Baker mentioned, we do have in Mr. Goodyear someone who has come to the table in an attempt to make things better, but I think it's important to bring it to the attention of the committee that a lot of the progress that's been made has been made because of intense political pressure, because people are watching.

The concern we have is that, one, we haven't crossed the finish line yet. We still haven't addressed the machinery issues that have been raised. They still haven't addressed the MOA in its finality. Most important of all, if at some point the political pressure goes away, then the progress has the potential, when Mr. Goodyear or I or anybody else retires or moves on, to reverse itself. We want to make sure that these things are addressed in a meaningful way.

I think it's incredibly important to note that a number of models are available. Whether it's the IJC or the Roosevelt Campobello commission, these are commissions that are structured very closely to the way we are. They have been successfully nested in Global Affairs. They are functioning successfully. We would like to see a similar level of success.

Again, this is not about money. This is about the governance, the independence and the ability of the commission to execute its mandate in a meaningful and fulsome way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Small.

We'll go on now to Mr. Morrissey for five minutes or less, please.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Chair.

This is a most interesting dilemma.

Mr. O'Dea, are there advantages for the Great Lakes commission to be in DFO versus GAC?

[Niall O'Dea]

The advantage, I suppose, of the commission being attached to the Department of Fisheries and Oceans is that many people within the department have an intense and localized understanding of the issues at play and the particular challenges of the management of the Great Lakes fishery and invasive species. At all levels of the department, they understand the kinds of opportunities that exist to address those challenges in a more robust way.

For instance, we have a national aquatic invasive species program. Our ability to bring our understanding of that work into our conversations with the Great Lakes Fishery Commission and in support of our work in the control of sea lampreys helps ensure that we're taking advantage of best practices.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you.

You feel it's best positioned within DFO, although there are different opinions. Am I correct? DFO doesn't have jurisdiction over fishing in the Great Lakes. Somebody made that comment. Is that correct, Mr. O'Dea?

[Niall O'Dea]

The federal government has jurisdiction over all fisheries, both inland and marine. However, in many instances, those responsibilities under the Fisheries Act are delegated to the provinces. In the instance of Ontario, they're delegated to the province and there is a particular role for the commission in the binational management of the Great Lakes.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

DFO does not directly administer fishery policy or regulation in the Great Lakes.

[Niall O'Dea]

That's correct.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

It's handed to the provinces.

[Niall O'Dea]

It's been with the provinces, yes.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you.

My question, then, would be.... There's only one province here, I think. It's primarily Ontario and a number of states. Is there anything complicating the management of the agreement at the state level and the provincial level?

[Niall O'Dea]

To my understanding, the commission—they may be able to speak to this, as well—provides quite an effective nexus for collaboration between governments on either side.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Okay, that's fine. It was curiosity.

I want to go to Mr. Lambe.

You referenced 2000 as the last year that was fully funded. Since 2000, up until when has the commission not been fully funded? Is that correct? Did I interpret that correctly?

[Robert Lambe]

That's correct. It was up until 2022.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

From 2000 to 2022, all governments in there underfunded it.

[Robert Lambe]

Canada, as a party to the agreement, was underfunding for that period, yes.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Therefore, there were the same irritants in place over that period that came to a head over the last number of years.

[Robert Lambe]

Yes. As we were saying, we've been trying to resolve this problem for a long time. This is not new.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Nothing happened, from what I understand. From some of your conversations in the last short period of time, there has been some meaningful discussion on getting towards a more acceptable understanding of how to move forward.

Did I interpret you correctly?

[Robert Lambe]

That's correct. We've done a lot of political outreach since 2018.

From 2018 to about 2019 or early 2020, I would characterize it as being about five false starts with the department when trying to resolve this internally.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

At least you had starts.

[Robert Lambe]

Well, they had no value, because we lost time, essentially.

We did a lot of political outreach going forward from about 2019, and that's when things started to change.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Okay.

Mr. Chair, how's my time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You have 35 seconds.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I have one last question.

You stated—I believe it was Mr. Lambe—that there is a deep misunderstanding within DFO. Now, you're not the first one to say that with respect to DFO. I hear it on the east coast from some of my fishers. I certainly hear it on the west coast.

In my last bit of time, elaborate a little more. What's the misunderstanding?