Fisheries Committee on June 12th, 2023

[Niall Cronin]

Mr. Chair, I would echo some of the comments from my colleagues last week that the interests of the Great Lakes Fishery Commission and the Government of Canada are very much aligned. Both recognize the importance of the commission's work.

There was a decision in the late 1970s that the Department of Fisheries and Oceans would be responsible for the commission, so funding has—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Has there ever been a challenge to the agreement between DFO and the Great Lakes Commission since 1970?

[Niall Cronin]

Mr. Chair, I think the reason we're here today is that there have been continuing discussions around the benefits—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

The challenge....

[Niall Cronin]

—and the pros and cons of that decision.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Maybe, Ms. Minotti.... You're nodding.

[Felicia Minotti, Deputy Director, United States Transboundary Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

I'm sorry?

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

My question was whether there has ever been an exterior challenge—exterior from government or within government—to the agreement between DFO...as you articulate it, between 1970 when it began and today.

[Niall Cronin]

Other than the discussions that have taken place over the last few years, I'm not aware of a particular challenge.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Could you check and confirm with the committee if there was?

You referenced a number of models that GAC administers. What's different about those versus the Great Lakes Commission?

Could you briefly comment?

[Niall Cronin]

Certainly. I can speak to three that our division tracks closely. These are the International Joint Commission, the Roosevelt Campobello International Park and the International Boundary Commission.

Mr. Chair—

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

None of those would overlap or even in any way deal with fishery items, would they?

[Niall Cronin]

No. The International Joint Commission deals with water levels and water quality.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Okay. Those three are working well.

Could you give an opinion to the committee on what's not working with the current Great Lakes Commission and DFO?

We heard a lot of hostility, I shall say, expressed by the Great Lakes Commission and the way it is being, some would say, “micromanaged” by DFO.

In your opinion, having the responsibility of dealing with a number of others, what is occurring in that relationship and with that agreement that is not happening in others, and maybe leading to that significant difference of opinion?

[Niall Cronin]

If I could, Mr. Chair, I would reflect on last week's appearance by representatives of both the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the Great Lakes Fishery Commission. I think what we heard was certainly a good-faith effort on both parties' behalf to get things back on track. We heard a recognition that there have been challenges in the relationship, but that there is a real willingness and a commitment from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans to make sure that those relationships are repaired, that standard operating procedures are put in place and that it's clear to all sides what the roles and responsibilities of the other are.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In the time I have left, Mr. Cronin, you referenced that Global Affairs is pleased that funding issues have been resolved. I take it, then, that you are aware that a lot of the issues that were raised by the commission before this committee are no longer so, and that everything has been resolved.

Is that what you're testifying to this committee?

[Niall Cronin]

Mr. Chair, I think there is a difference of opinion or there are different views on the machinery of government for the GLFC.

As officials, our role is to certainly work with the construct as it's set. We watch very closely from Global Affairs Canada the views of our American colleagues on the commission. Certainly, up until budget 2022, the funding had been raised on a fairly regular basis.

The clarifications that have taken place subsequent to the funding announcement have certainly helped in our conversations with our U.S. colleagues.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Morrissey.

We'll now go to Madam Desbiens for six minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses, for joining us this morning.

I would like to understand the exact link between the commission and the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development; what is the basic link?

[Niall Cronin]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think our relationship is one where we recognize the importance of the commission. We certainly recognize the role that it plays in supporting the Great Lakes fishery. That is why we're in touch with officials at the secretariat, either informally or at events where we'll speak. We'll also have regular calls and check-ins to make sure that the commission is healthy, functioning and really supporting that strong Canada-U.S. relationship that we have.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

All right.

Last week, your colleagues asserted that there was no discrimination related to nationality when it came to negotiating the sale of a fishing business. Is your department taking action to encourage the retention of businesses by Canadian and Quebec companies? Do you have any influence on business retention?

[Niall Cronin]

With respect, that would be outside the responsibilities of the division where I sit at Global Affairs. Our role is much more to monitor the state of the relationship with the U.S. on various transboundary issues, including water issues.

When it comes to private sector and the role of companies, I would have to take that back and see which departments or parts of our own department might be better placed to answer.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

When you say you monitor relations with the United States, what do you do if you see a problem?

[Niall Cronin]

The first thing to do is to assess the reasons for the problem. We do that through talking to as many people as possible. We then see if there's a way that we can resolve it through discussion at our level.

If that isn't successful, then we'll see what tools Global Affairs can bring to the table to help resolve the issue.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

On this question of surveillance and vigilance, I'd like to come back to the fact that witnesses wanted to testify anonymously, which really shook me. I'm digressing a little from the subject of the Great Lakes Fishery Commission, but this study is important for all the fishers of the St. Lawrence and the Gulf of St. Lawrence, directly linked to the Great Lakes. It all flows together, to make a pun.

Owners told the committee that they had been victims of a lack of vigilance on the part of Fisheries and Oceans Canada, the government and Global Affairs Canada. We're not sure from whom exactly, but we're trying to get to the bottom of it. They also told us that they had been deprived of their licences, their quotas, their fishing potential and the pecuniary interest that fishing could bring them. It's disturbing.

Earlier, you used the English word “machinery” to refer to the government apparatus. I like that word. To me, a machine is a lot of little wires with things that touch from time to time and short-circuit, and that's about it.

How can you protect owner-fishers who had quotas acquired modestly from family to family and, often, from generation to generation, and who, because of a series of steps, suddenly find themselves deprived of their quotas and licences and are no longer even able to support their boats? How can we preserve the fishing potential of Quebec and Canada? Are you in a position to intervene in this matter?