Fisheries Committee on March 1st, 2022

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

The e-log reporting is only as accurate as the information entered into it, though. There's no independent verification of that, is there?

[Ian MacPherson]

Because we don't have a system in place yet in Canada, no. Perhaps Mr. Hayne could speak to that in terms of other jurisdictions with electronic reporting, what part of the MSC audit process is.... Certainly, P.E.I. has been a leader in getting its certification and maintaining it with very few conditions, but that's a whole area that probably needs to be discussed more extensively.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I have a general question for all three.

Could you comment? Are fishers losing value as a result of mislabelling and inaccurate labelling of seafood products?

I will start with Ms. Callegari and then go to Mr. Hayne, if you want.

[Christina Callegari]

In some circumstances, yes, harvesters who don't know where their product is going could end up with it being mislabelled down the supply chain as something else that could be sold for a cheaper price.

[Kurtis Hayne]

I will respond to that from an MSC perspective. Fisheries and supply chain actors that are using MSC local and selling certified seafood do so voluntarily. A lot of times that is to gain market access or a market premium.

I think there is value to be gleaned from assurance of source, traceability and sustainability. There is value for fishers in demonstrating that, and we have seen that.

[Bobby Morrissey, Liberal, Egmont, PE]

I have a question of clarification, Ms. Callegari.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Morrissey. Your six minutes have expired.

We will now go to Mr. Garon, for six minutes or less, please.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to thank our three guests for their very interesting presentations.

Most of my questions will be for Ms. Callegari.

Ms. Callegari, I really enjoyed your presentation. I believe that responsible and sustainable fishing is important not only for the continued existence of our fishing industry, but also for public health.

I know that you worked hard on a major labelling and traceability report.

What would be the first stage, phase or major step forward today for improved labelling?

What role should the federal government play?

[Christina Callegari]

In terms of one big step right now, I would say making sure we are creating an interdepartmental task force with many stakeholders involved in the process will be the most important first step in getting this rolling.

We have identified in previous FOPO meetings that there is a gap between what the CFIA is focused on in terms of health and safety and the data that DFO is collecting. They are not really coming together.

I think there's an opportunity for departments to come together and discuss this as a way to modernize the way we collect data and how that information is shared between the different departments.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

I'd like to go to another aspect of the same question.

What do you think would be the main risk to Quebeckers and Canadians if we decided not to take action and not change the existing system and regulatory framework?

[Christina Callegari]

I apologize. I didn't fully get the interpretation there.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

The story of my life.

I'll start over.

What are the main risks associated with inadequate labelling?

[Christina Callegari]

If I'm getting your question correctly, of course, not labelling products—either because they are mislabelled or not truthful, or simply because they are from Quebec but maybe processed in China and end up being a product of China—is going to pose risks for the producers, who are trying to sell their catch either domestically or to other countries to gain recognition as a product of Canada. There's a risk there in terms of producers not being recognized for that.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you.

I'd also like to comment on the very interesting question from my colleague opposite, Mr. Morrissey, about losing value.

It's clear to me that proper labelling and traceability would further benefit the top players in the market, those fishers who offer quality products, and all the links in the supply chain that provide the highest level of quality.

We are all aware of the shortcomings of the current labelling system. Are we not once again playing to the bad actors in the market?

My question is for all the witnesses.

Can you tell me who, from the harvester to the retailer, currently benefits from bad labelling?

[Kurtis Hayne]

I can speak to that. I think it goes back to some of the earlier points raised. There is not a level playing field across all actors in the supply chain, and without mandate traceability....

Ms. Callegari talked about the point that there is greenwashing that occurs in the market. Our program takes some cost. It relies on third party audits, not only for our certified fisheries but for everyone who owns that seafood up until the time it's labelled. That takes a cost, a voluntary cost, to good supply chain actors.

When there is not an even playing field and logos can be applied to products that claim their sustainability without the assurance to back it up, that is the issue in terms of evening out that playing field across our supply chain and ensuring that those doing the right thing, looking to third party certifications or applying traceability, are rewarded for their efforts.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you for your answer, Mr. Hayne.

If no one else wishes to speak, I'll continue.

My next question is once again for all the witnesses.

My understanding is that today, it's possible to buy a Canadian product that was not caught in Canada. I think that's particularly true for processed products. We don't know exactly what the various processing steps were. We're not certain exactly what species is in the box. We buy it, but we don't really know what we're buying.

How does Canada stack up against other countries? The European system, for example?

Are we making a good impression or are we a bit embarrassed about the system we are currently using?

[Christina Callegari]

Certainly we've looked to the European Union for many years in terms of their labelling standards. They provide the catch area on products. They provide the scientific name, and they also provide the gear type. Canada is, unfortunately, not keeping up with some of what we consider to be the best standards globally, and as I mentioned in my presentation, the U.S. is also taking steps to improve here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Caron. Your time is up.

It will now go to Ms. Barron, for six minutes or less, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses who are here today and for all this great information you are bringing forward.

I have some questions specifically for Ms. Callegari, and perhaps Mr. Hayne as well.

Specific to SeaChoice, you have spoken a bit about the annual reports that are out, with all this great information around the state of seafood traceability programs in Canada and so on. I'm wondering if you can just provide some basic Reader's Digest, Coles Notes information around what that survey entails as regards participation rates, and how it is conducted. I'm just trying to understand the weight of this survey as we move forward and hear these responses.

[Christina Callegari]

Just to clarify, are you talking about the greenwashing study that we conducted?

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Yes, please.

[Christina Callegari]

For sure. In that report we did in 2019, we intended to look across Canada, to cover all the major retailers and to see whether or not, as consumer demand increases for sustainable seafood, we could actually see companies providing this information about sustainability on their products, and to see whether or not that was verifiable.

What we found was that products that had a sustainability claim, like an MSC certification, or what we call an endorsement, which would be an Ocean Wise logo or a dolphin-safe logo on a package, fared a lot better. That is because they actually have third party verification and information attached to those statements, whereas for what we call “self-declared” claims—those that just say “responsibly sourced” or “sustainable”—we had a really tough time actually verifying whether or not those products were as sustainable as they were saying, because very few had that information on the package to determine that.

When we took a few more steps to either contact the company to get information or to look through their website, we ended up finding that 41% weren't able to provide information that would verify the product as sustainable, so we concluded that we didn't have enough information to verify that.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

Just to clarify, are you saying it started in 2019, and you've had it annually ever since?

[Christina Callegari]

Yes.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Have you seen any changes, positive or negative? You're giving a report on greenwashing, so there are some accountability mechanisms in place now. Are you seeing any changes since you began this annual report?