Fisheries Committee on March 1st, 2022

[Christina Callegari]

That report we haven't continued annually. The reports that we have done annually have been our DNA testing reports, which we conducted over 2017 and 2018. We've seen little improvement on that front, unfortunately.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Okay. Thank you for the clarification.

I can't agree more with the importance of this report. As we know, greenwashing impacts our consumer confidence and the choices we're able to make, so I appreciate the work you're doing around this.

I apologize. I have too many questions that my brain is trying to wrap around.

My question for Mr. Hayne is around the 1%, because 1% of the certified product is mislabelled. I'm wondering if you could just clarify how this chain of custody is maintained and expand a bit on how.... It feels like that's a very low number, so I'm wondering if you can speak a little more to that.

[Kurtis Hayne]

It's less than 1%. We've done a few. We periodically repeat the DNA testing of MSC-certified products as an assurance mechanism through our program, to make sure our chain of custody is working.

To answer your previous question on how it's maintained, we hold both our sustainability standard.... I realize I didn't answer the question before. It's ensuring that fisheries are certified to ensure that their fisheries are sustainable. It looks at the health of the stock. It looks at whether they're mitigating environmental impacts like bycatch or habitat damage and whether the fishery is well managed.

Anything with our blue logo needs to be from a certified fishery to start. Then anyone who owns the seafood must have annual audits for chain of custody. Those are third party audits. We hold a traceability standard that all of these companies are audited against, and they're audited annually. Typically, outside of the pandemic, there would be an auditor who comes into the warehouse, looks at all of the traceability systems in place, can provide “trace backs” through the program, and ensures that if they're using origin of catch labelling and species labelling, it's applied correctly. It's quite a rigorous program. It's also being continually updated.

All these supply chain actors, those 372 partners in Canada, undergo annual audits for traceability of MSC-certified products.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

I have more questions, but I think this is the last question I'll be able to fit in this time frame.

I was wondering, Ms. Callegari, if you can expand a bit on some of the shortcomings that SeaChoice has identified in the voluntary certification systems that are currently in place. I know you've had some information, but I was wondering if you can expand on that a bit.

[Christina Callegari]

Unfortunately, we found that when left voluntarily up to industry, we don't see as many companies providing the information that we feel is important on a label. There may be some good actors providing some of this information, but the bad actors may just provide a generic common name, “salmon”, and we don't know where that salmon is coming from; or it could be a halibut that wasn't fished sustainably.

It definitely hurts both the consumers and our producers here in Canada when these systems are just voluntary, especially because of the uptake.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

We'll now go to Mr. Arnold for five minutes or less, please.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have two quick questions, and then I'll be passing my time to Mr. Small.

First of all, for Mr. Hayne, you mentioned the Marine Stewardship Council. Their systems are audited by a third party and so on. Can you tell us who does those audits?

[Kurtis Hayne]

Sure. All auditors who are auditing either to their fisheries standard or to an MSC standard need to be accredited by the accreditation services of the International Accreditation Board. There are a number of what are called “certification assessment bodies” that perform these audits. An auditor will be contracted out by any partner of any fishery that wants to undertake an audit, and then they conduct those audits, so they are independent third party audits. We do not.... We're just standard holders, so we don't actually complete the audits ourselves as of right now.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay, thank you.

The next question is for Mr. MacPherson.

Mr. MacPherson, would you say that traceability would add value to all harvesters, processors and retailers that you know of?

[Ian MacPherson]

Mr. Arnold, it's a personal opinion, but I would say yes, because the shore price should reflect the value in the marketplace. If the supply chain is to remain healthy, then the benefits should translate right from the wharf all the way through the supply chain. Harvesters want to be paid fairly and appropriately for the catch that they've brought in, and not have substitutes.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

Mr. Small.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, my question is to Mr. Hayne regarding the MSC blue label.

How much of a disadvantage is it to producers in selling their product if they don't have your label?

[Kurtis Hayne]

It's a difficult question.

Our program works by trying to incentivize consumers and retailers to choose certified products and to look for our logo when out shopping. We kind of work at it from the other side of the coin. It's about making sure people are choosing certified sustainable seafood.

We've seen over the last several years a large uptick in certified seafood sold in Canada, North America and globally. I think that's consumers becoming much more engaged in sustainability.

We undertake consumer testing every two years. What we see is year over year increases in concern about seafood sustainability and about the health of our oceans. Consumers want to see an assured, traceable product and more sustainability information from producers on products.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

My next question is for Mr. MacPherson.

Are you finding any inequities, heavy-handedness or things that just don't make sense to harvesters in the quest to achieve MSC labelling?

[Ian MacPherson]

Actually, Prince Edward Island was one of the first groups in North America to have harvesters on the actual certificate. We're in partnership with our seafood processors, the PEIFA and three of our first nations on the island.

We've been an active part of that, to make sure that if something's been discussed even at a conceptual level it makes sense on the boat. We will continue to do that and to be actively involved. I think that because we were involved, we currently have processes that are functional for all parts of the supply chain.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

In terms of the effect of the right whale on the labelling of seafood, how are you finding the struggle to keep up with labelling because of what's happening with the right whale? Would you like to explain that to the committee?

Are you concerned that you can actually keep up? Do you think efforts can actually be made to save the right whale by fishermen, or do you think you might be unfairly targeted a bit there?

[Ian MacPherson]

I can't really speak to the labelling aspects, but I can speak to the measures that we take in Canada. Unfortunately, there are some times when all the good things we're doing aren't being effectively communicated, especially in some of the U.S. markets. That's an ongoing battle.

It's something on which we work closely. There are members of the Lobster Council of Canada, and we have a communications committee to address that. We've put together what I think is a very impactful pamphlet to advise buyers and people who have concerns around the right whales that we're doing everything we can, and in many cases leading the way on some of these measures.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Small.

We'll now go to Mr. Hardie, for five minutes or less, please.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to all of the witnesses appearing today.

Just as a little news item here, Icewater Seafoods in Newfoundland has just cancelled imports of Russian cod in support of Ukraine. It's kind of nice, but it leads to a couple of questions about the processing part of the whole transaction.

If Canadian catch is processed offshore and then returned to Canada, do we lose all traceability? I'm asking Ms. Callegari.

[Christina Callegari]

In many cases I think we do. Seafood is unique in that we have transshipments, so multiple products coming from different boats may get put on one boat for processing and then sent to another place. That's certainly a challenge the seafood industry faces, in particular in terms of maintaining that traceability once it gets to the port.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Do we have situations where foreign catch caught by a Portuguese vessel could be landed in Canada for processing? Mr. MacPherson, maybe you could answer that.

[Ian MacPherson]

I do not know that, sir, for sure.

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

The matter came up of mixing product. If somebody's processing, let's say, cod, and you have locally caught cod mixed with foreign-caught cod, then all of a sudden it's terribly obscure to the rest of the chain, the transaction, as to where exactly this is coming from.

We heard from the Canadian Food Inspection Agency. They made it very clear that their focus is on the safety of the food, but we're hearing a lot of other issues that go beyond safety. It goes to fraud. It goes to sustainability and so on.

Who, in addition to the CFIA, from the federal government's side, needs to be involved in the whole issue of traceability? Maybe, Mr. Hayne, we'll give this one to you. If anybody else has a thought, just raise your hand, please.

[Kurtis Hayne]

I think DFO will be an important stakeholder here. As we've heard from previous testimony, they're responsible for fresh fishing management and the time that the fish gets to the dock. For any effective responsible fishery—

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I'm talking about foreign products.