Fisheries Committee on Feb. 13th, 2024

[Ken Hardie, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Yes, but—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Mr. Hardie. Your time has gone a little over.

We'll now go to Madame Desbiens for two and a half minutes or less, please.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll take some of my time to give notice of a motion, hoping for good faith from all.

Given the significant decline in shrimp biomass, the low allocation of redfish to the shrimp fleet, particularly the small fleet, the possible demise of the shrimp industry and the lack of concrete alternatives and concrete support, and the repercussions suffered by fishers, fishers' helpers, processing plant owners and employees, as well as coastal communities and businesses, given all this urgency to act, I move:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee undertake a study of the criteria used by the Department of Fisheries and Oceans (DFO) to set redfish quotas, in particular those announced by the minister on January 26, 2024, in order to assess the extent of their effects on the shrimp fishing industry; that the committee allocate at least two meetings to conduct this study; that the February 27 meeting be allocated to hear from the minister and senior DFO officials so they can answer the committee’s questions for two hours, and that the February 29 meeting be allocated to hear from any witnesses the committee deems necessary; and that the committee urgently report its findings and recommendations to the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

We've heard the motion. Can we get it copied and distributed?

It's a notice of motion, so it doesn't have to be debated right now. We'll do that at our next committee business meeting.

You have 34 seconds left, Madame Desbiens.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

What luck!

In the significant cases of violence and intimidation that have been mentioned, why do we hear that there are agents who don't dare intervene? How do you plan to remedy this situation?

[Annette Gibbons]

Officers will assess the situation, that's for sure. If it turns out to be extremely dangerous, they'll act accordingly. As I mentioned, our agents are trained to deal with uncomfortable situations.

I believe Mr. Napier wants to say more.

[Brent Napier]

Yes, thank you.

Over and above that, it's not a question of fear. These are officers who went out during COVID throughout the entire period, so it's not fear. They're well trained, but they also have a mandate for fishery offences. Violence and Criminal Code offences are not something that fishery officers deal with. That falls under the mandate of the police of jurisdiction, the RCMP as an example, so putting our officers in these situations when they don't have a mandate to address them is also a dangerous thing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Madame Desbiens.

We'll now go to Ms. Barron for two and a half minutes or less, please.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is for Ms. Gibbons.

My colleague Mr. Perkins shared with me the impacts of the illegal elver fishery on the people who live along the river and the violence and the tremendous impacts on their capacity to feel safe in their homes as a result of the illegal poaching that's happening along the river.

I'm wondering if you can share how closing the legal elver fishery is going to help mitigate the problems that these people are experiencing and the environmental impacts of the poaching that's happening.

[Annette Gibbons]

The goal, as I said, is to try to have a deterrent impact, so to have less illegal poaching and less total harvesting of the resource under a closure or non-opening scenario, because we are cutting off this possibility of mixing illegally harvested and legally harvested elver. The goal is to see less harvesting overall. There will be greater clarity that any activity that's happening is unauthorized.

Therefore, if we see less, we will have greater conservation, more safety in those areas, less tension between the different harvester groups and just fewer people out on the rivers.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Thank you.

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

You have 35 seconds.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Okay. This won't be answered. Maybe you could provide the rest of it in writing.

My final question is about what happened in 2019 in Nova Scotia around the conflict and violence associated with the lobster fishery and the learnings we should take from that.

I am seeing a lot of misinformation around indigenous rights to access to a moderate livelihood. I'm noticing some themes and patterns that are very similar between the two, and I have concerns. I'm wondering if you can perhaps provide in writing some learnings from the 2019 incidents and how we can ensure that we don't see similar conflict arising as a result of decisions being made around that elver fishery.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ken McDonald]

Thank you, Ms. Barron.

We'll now go to Mr. Arnold for five minutes or less, please.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Gibbons, you just stated that your goal this year of potentially not having an opening is an attempt to avoid the illegal export or any sales of elvers. Is that correct?

[Annette Gibbons]

It's harvesting. We're trying to diminish the harvest.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

How are you going to diminish the harvest?

[Annette Gibbons]

It's a deterrent.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

It's a deterrent.

[Annette Gibbons]

It's by not having the possibility of laundering unauthorized harvest with the authorized harvest.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Okay. It's basically the laundering or the illegal export of eels to foreign countries. Is that correct?

[Annette Gibbons]

Yes.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you for clarifying that.

This government can't stop stolen cars or stolen trucks from being exported through the port of Montreal, even when the owners know they're there. How do you expect to stop a tub of eels from being exported when this government can't stop the exportation of hundreds, if not thousands, of stolen cars?

[Annette Gibbons]

I'm certainly not qualified to speak about the export of cars. However, the purpose of the regulations we're developing is to be able to have control over the various points of sale in the supply chain up to the point of export, thereby making it illegal to sell export elvers for which there isn't a certificate of....

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

Has your department been able to stop the illegal harvest of elvers at this point?