Evidence of meeting #10 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was licence.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
To answer that as fairly as possible, I think it would definitely have to be in writing, because I believe the chair will pull the time for us if I try to explain that.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
Okay, that's fair.
If you go back to the owner-operator...you made a comment. You referred to the regulations not being tight enough. I thought it was relatively clear. Do you have recommendations on how the act could be changed to more clearly define or protect the owner-operator so that there would be no room for interpretation or discrepancy?
President, Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
I don't know if it necessarily needs to be strengthened, it just needs to be acted upon. There's stuff in place in policy that.... Like I mentioned in my statement, just enforce it by law. It's not being done.
I think it might have been you who asked Bernie about a list of infractions and stuff. I know there are several people who testified previously and have given company names of violators, and nothing has been done. If we're providing you with this information, it should be acted upon.
, I don't know if too much strengthening needs to be done; you just need to act on what's in place right now.
Liberal
President, Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
Yes, it's the transfer of licences and the controlling agreements.
Liberal
Bobby Morrissey Liberal Egmont, PE
You are correct. That's an area that should be upheld.
In the time I have left, I want to go back to the science. You made the comment that science must guide decisions, but then we often get the conflicting view from fisher input. Any time the quota is going up, when the minister announces it, nobody criticizes the decision; it's only when it's going down.
How do you square the two? The minister of the day, regardless of who it is, is saying they're making the decision based on science. I would expect a minister to make a difficult decision for the future of the stock to protect the two people sitting behind you that you referenced when you came in.
Could you give your opinion?
President, Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
Yes, I knew I was going to get a question on this.
What I meant by my statement is that the science that's being used sometimes is outdated. It should be modernized, whether it's from a trawl survey maybe or...to the time of year.
There should be more marrying of the on-board science that associations like mine and Mr. Berry's group do. Most of the associations do a lot of at-sea science. Sometimes it's overlooked because they consider it to be biased.
I could not argue with that more because we are proponents and we want all fisheries to continue to be successful. We put everything we can into the science we do. We're very fortunate in my LFA that DFO relies very heavily on the science that we do for our lobster, so—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
I'm afraid I'm going to have to step in here. We're over time.
Mr. Barron, if there's anything you'd like to add, please do so in writing.
Mr. Deschênes, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I have a question for you, Mr. Berry.
In your presentation, you stated that you had come across cases where owner-operator licences have been transferred to corporations.
Have you or any of the people you know filed complaints about this with Fisheries and Oceans Canada?
Senior Fisheries Advisor, Coldwater Lobster Association
Yes, this type of information has been passed on to the department probably over the last five, seven, eight or 10 years. To Mr. Barron's point, in some instances, there have been companies named and stuff like this and the attempt.... It's been acted on, but not to the degree it should have been.
Yes, it's been brought to the attention of the department and stuff like that, with names and everything else.
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
Do you know whether Fisheries and Oceans Canada took any action? Are there things that have been done?
Senior Fisheries Advisor, Coldwater Lobster Association
Yes, they've taken some steps, but like I pointed out in my presentation, it's been sporadic. For a year or 18 months, it seems like DFO will do a lot of inquiries and investigations into certain transactions. It will try to do something and then, all of a sudden, there's nothing.
It seems like they make a show of stuff like this and then they just—
Bloc
Alexis Deschênes Bloc Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC
I’m sorry for interrupting you, but I only have so much time.
Are there instances where Fisheries and Oceans Canada investigators have cancelled licence transfers?
Senior Fisheries Advisor, Coldwater Lobster Association
I don't think they cancelled licences. I think they gave the opportunity to the company and the fishers in question to become compliant with the act. I think, instead of cancelling the licence, they went through a process to do that.
Even some of that stuff is still questionable. DFO gave the approval on some of these changes to have these agreements set up.
Again, I go back to this: If the stuff in policy was in the regulations—if all of it was in the regulations—it would simply make it harder to make the initial transaction. It gets really hard once the transaction has been completed. You get a lot more people involved. If people, because of the threat of severe penalties, would not even attempt to do the transaction.... That's where the focus should be.
Bloc
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
I have to stop you there, Mr. Deschênes. You’re already over your time.
Looking at the time here, we have enough time for two minutes each for the next two questioners.
We'll hand the floor over to Mr. d'Entremont.
Conservative
Chris d'Entremont Conservative Acadie—Annapolis, NS
Mr. Berry, when it comes to foreign ownership, the fishery in southwest Nova Scotia has changed dramatically over the last number of years where we've seen lots of foreign ownership pop in. I think what those foreign nationals would want is to have consistent access to our fishery.
Do you have any good examples of that?
Senior Fisheries Advisor, Coldwater Lobster Association
There are several Chinese entities, especially in southwest Nova, that have invested in the lobster fishery by buying existing lobster facilities.
When the Chinese companies first came here, it was kind of a godsend because it really boosted the shore price and stuff like that, but there seems to be more and more Chinese ownership and foreign ownership. There's American ownership on our shorelines now. There's a possibility—I know, having had discussions with provincial ministers in the past—that our shoreside industry could be as much as 50% to 60% foreign owned right now. That will create a bottleneck over time.
Conservative
Chris d'Entremont Conservative Acadie—Annapolis, NS
Whether we open the act or don't open that act, there are a number of rules and regulations within the current act that have not been enacted.
Mr. Barron, should we open the act or should DFO enforce what's already there?
President, Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
I think DFO should just enforce what's already there.
Conservative
Senior Fisheries Advisor, Coldwater Lobster Association
There are the tools there, but I think they have to be enhanced. I don't know if you have to change the act, but put more of it in regulations, and the penalty part has to be enhanced.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. d'Entremont.
Finally, we will go to Mr. Klassen for two minutes.
Liberal
Ernie Klassen Liberal South Surrey—White Rock, BC
Thank you very much to all the witnesses.
We heard from several witnesses the other day as well. I remember that one of the witnesses from the west coast, when we were looking at west coast modernization, suggested that we not go to owner-operators on the west coast.
Mr. Barron, you mentioned that licences should only go to owner-operators. Would you not see that there is a way that both kinds of licences can work side by side?
President, Cape Breton Fish Harvesters Association
If I understand your question correctly, you said that B.C. doesn't support owner-operators.