Evidence of meeting #15 for Fisheries and Oceans in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was prosecutions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to welcome the witnesses today.
The number one purpose of the act is the conservation of fish stocks. How can effects on or damages to communities or groups supersede the prosecution of those charged, Ms. O'Connor?
Deputy Director, Public Prosecutions, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
The factors that a prosecution service considers are different. They overlap, but they are different from the legislative purpose of any particular legislation. While legislation has its policy purpose, prosecutions, as they're independent, consider a variety of factors, including the policy and community considerations that have been put forward by our parliamentarians.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
Has there ever been a time when a directive has been issued—say, from the PMO—to lean in a certain direction in prosecutions?
Deputy Director, Public Prosecutions, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
The short answer is no.
The Director of Public Prosecutions Act provides not only for the independence of the Public Prosecution Service but also for a relationship with the Attorney General. It is possible, pursuant to sections 10 to 13 of our act, for the Attorney General to issue a direction to the Public Prosecution Service of Canada, either generally or case-specific. It must be gazetted. It must be made public so that the public is aware of such a direction.
While there have been general principle directions issued by attorneys general in the past, there has not been a case-specific direction issued to the Public Prosecution Service of Canada.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
We've had some testimony about the owner-operator policy and fleet separation. Have you had any cases come across your desk related to the owner-operator policy? That policy was strengthened in the 2019 act.
Deputy Director, Public Prosecutions, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
Just one moment, please. I'm not personally familiar.
If I may ask a clarifying question, is this in relation to any inshore regulations?
Deputy Director, Public Prosecutions, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
Thank you for your indulgence.
We have certainly had conversations with DFO regarding inshore regulations and investigations. I'm not able to comment further on those. I don't have more specific details on that.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
What factors would influence charges being laid under the owner-operator policy?
Deputy Director, Public Prosecutions, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
If there's a reasonable prospect of conviction after there's been a criminal act or violation of the law, and, of course, if it's in the public interest to prosecute, then we would proceed with the prosecution.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
When a Fisheries Act charge lands on a prosecutor's desk, does it contain information on or a description of the individual the charge was laid against?
Deputy Director, Public Prosecutions, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
It may; it may not. Certainly, we'll be able to glean information about an accused individual. Oftentimes—I would even hazard to say most often—prosecutors learn about the individual accused over the course of the prosecution. Prosecutions take months, sometimes years, and we will always invite the defence, whether it's defence counsel or a self-represented accused, to share information, but there may not be a lot of details in an investigative file. The investigative file is generally focused on the alleged crime and the evidence that would be required to prove it.
Conservative
Clifford Small Conservative Central Newfoundland, NL
With respect to Atlantic Canada, is there a region or province that has had more charges prosecuted than any other?
November 27th, 2025 / 9:25 a.m.
Deputy Director, Public Prosecutions, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
I don't have statistics on that, but I can indicate that when charges are brought to PPSC, we are always responsive and engaging actively with investigative bodies so that we understand the file and are able to bring it forward for prosecution.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
Thank you very much, Mr. Small. I'm sorry, but the time has elapsed.
Next we'll go to Mr. Cormier for five minutes.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. O'Connor, as you've seen, we've asked a lot of questions about first nations, fisheries and some of the incidents that have happened over the years. It is our duty to do so.
As you said earlier, it is in the interest of Canadians to have confidence in the justice system. Regardless of the colour of their skin or their ethnic origin, Canadians have the right to have trust in a justice system that is fair and equitable and upholds the laws that are on the books.
I always say that we're not going to put a young person in prison, regardless of the colour of their skin, who goes to a convenience store and steals a chocolate bar for the first time in their life. We agree on that, we can't put such a person in prison. However, if that person, no matter who they are, graduates over time from stealing a chocolate bar to armed robbery, that's a whole other story.
In the case of fisheries, which is today's topic, what concerns me is the issue of the exception. The way you put it, I don't know if that's the right term. The fact is that, for certain groups, a person's life experiences and record will be considered, among other things. There seems to be some favouritism in the treatment of certain groups.
Do you think that has anything to do with the concept of indigenous reconciliation that the government has put forward? It's clear that we need to make those choices and have a new vision, a new way of working with those groups. On the other hand, if we start making the choices you are suggesting and the law is being violated, regardless of the person or their cultural community, don't you think that will undermine Canadians' confidence in the justice system?
Deputy Director, Public Prosecutions, Public Prosecution Service of Canada
I completely agree that it is very important. It is essential to the Public Prosecution Service of Canada, the PPSC, that the public has confidence in the justice system. We also thank you for inviting us here to ask us these questions.
There is no favouritism in the way PPSC conducts prosecutions and makes decisions. We make decisions based on the personal circumstances of the accused that are presented in their case. We consider a great many factors in each case, as well as everything related to the alleged crime. As you pointed out, a person's past history is very important and that is indeed one of the factors we consider. It is very important for the public to understand and trust the justice system.
We also understand that there are sometimes questions about how we establish our processes and conduct prosecutions. When possible, we communicate with victims, communities and investigatory agencies. In many cases, we cannot provide details about our decisions because that information is confidential. I can tell you something that the media in the Atlantic provinces have reported: there are at least 50 prosecutions involving indigenous persons under the Fisheries Act.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Like my colleagues, I would also like to see your files, your investigations, or even documentation on prosecutions under the Fisheries Act, for the years 2006 to 2015.
Ms. Rogers, I'm not forgetting you. When it comes to enforcing the Environment Act, let's say there is fish plant that is dumping waste water or chemicals into the bay or the sea. Would that be your responsibility or the province's responsibility?
Director General, Environmental Enforcement, Department of the Environment
If that water goes directly into waters where there could be fisheries, then it's our responsibility.
Liberal
Serge Cormier Liberal Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Similarly, if the province issues the licence to operate those plants, is it responsible nonetheless? Based on your recommendations, would the province revoke the license, or would you be able to do so at your end?
Director General, Environmental Enforcement, Department of the Environment
In general, in the case of a provincial licence, the province is responsible for ensuring compliance with the provisions of the licence.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Patrick Weiler
You had five minutes.
We'll now go to Mr. Deschênes for two and a half minutes.