Fisheries Committee on Sept. 25th, 2025

[Todd Williams]

Absolutely, the minister does.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Okay.

Let's come back to the new allocations the fleets received.

When the redfish fishery closed 30 years ago, did groups like the shrimp harvesters and indigenous fishermen already have a redfish quota?

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

There's time for just a short answer.

[Todd Williams]

Not specifically within the allocation key, but they may have had it through other licences.

[The Chair, Liberal, Patrick Weiler]

Thank you, Mr. Cormier.

Mr. Deschênes for six minutes.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Lemire, I believe you are a biologist. Is that correct?

[Maryse Lemire]

That's correct.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Are you familiar with the emerging fisheries policy?

[Maryse Lemire]

Yes, I am.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

That policy, adopted in 1996, was updated in 2008. It sets out the steps that must be followed when new fisheries open.

Before exploratory fishing, would I be correct in thinking that the first step is experimental fishing?

[Maryse Lemire]

That's not always the case. Sometimes, exploratory fishing can be done right from the start.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Would I be correct in saying that, unless otherwise indicated, the policy applies to all new fisheries that are undertaken?

[Maryse Lemire]

It applies to species that have never been subject to commercial fishing and about which we have no information.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

The idea to start with an experimental fishery is based on what principle?

[Maryse Lemire]

When we possess no information about a specific species, it allows us to determine whether that species is present or not in a targeted sector.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

You said the following: “When we have no information.” However, the Wolastoqiyik had an experimental fishery in zone 19 for four years. At that time, we had scientific data.

[Maryse Lemire]

There was indeed an experimental fishery at the western end of zone 19.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Let me get back to the policy, which states that a scientific base for assessing stock responses to new fishing pressures is vital.

This policy also refers to taking a “preventive approach” and an “approach that integrates scientific data.” There are also frequent references to a precautionary approach.

When the exploratory fishery opened in all zones, why did people violate Fisheries and Oceans Canada's policy by failing to follow the clearly outlined steps, which state that experimental fisheries must come first? Why did you immediately issue all the exploratory fishing licences?

[Maryse Lemire]

Thank you for your question.

This project involves acquiring knowledge and developing lobster fishing in zones where abundance signals are present and increasing, and where the resource is already being commercially exploited to a certain extent. Moreover, these zones cover large areas.

The tool used to implement the project is exploratory fishing. This involves a cautious approach that will give us the chance to see whether the resource can support additional commercial harvesting in a sustainable way. The approach takes a cautious stance in that exploratory fishing licences may not be reassigned. In other words, they remain in effect for only one year and they must be renewed. Any negative signals may lead the department to revise its plan. These zones have already been exploited. We already had information on the presence of the resources and indicators of lobster abundance.

The policy makes this possible.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

The policy states that, in exceptional cases where no market exists for the resource, an exploratory fishing licence may be issued immediately. The policy emphasizes the need to take a precautionary approach, collect scientific data and begin with experimental fishing.

In this case, Fisheries and Oceans Canada decided to open approximately 12,000 new fishing traps between the Côte‑Nord and the Îles‑de‑la‑Madeleine, without any scientific data to support this decision.

[Maryse Lemire]

Scientific surveys and stock assessments show that the resource is healthy. We based our decision on existing scientific information and on abundance and landing indicators, which have been increasing in recent years.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Ms. Lemire, you're a scientist. Did the Department of Fisheries and Oceans provide a scientific opinion recommending a direct transition to exploratory fishing and the issuance of exploratory fishing licences before the minister made her decision? Was there any scientific opinion of this kind?

[Maryse Lemire]

The approach to developing a new fishery is based on available information about the state of the resource. The new emerging fisheries policy makes it possible to start the exploratory phase.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

My question was the following. Did the Department of Fisheries and Oceans provide a scientific opinion suggesting that the experimental phase be skipped, that the exploratory phase be launched immediately and that over 11,000 traps be authorized?

Was there any scientific opinion of this nature before the minister made her decision?

[Maryse Lemire]

The latest stock assessment confirmed that the stocks were healthy and, as I said, the indicators showed an increase in landings.