Fisheries Committee on June 1st, 2026

[Ghislain Cyr]

If you're talking about mackerel as such, I'd tell you that what we see all summer, in other fisheries, like recreational cod fishing, are large mackerel. They're caught accidentally. They stay deeper and are everywhere. That's what almost all the fishers in the area have seen. That shows there's no problem with the mackerel.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I'll return to my original question: Do you think that DFO has given enough consideration to the experience and expertise that fishers have gained on the water over the years?

If I understand you correctly, you find that all the importance and credibility are being given to scientific data, even though the collection methods are sometimes questionable.

[Ghislain Cyr]

I'd say that trust in scientists is decreasing more and more. I spoke with fishers who attended the last meeting held at the Maurice Lamontagne Institute. They told me they didn't understand anything anymore, so much so that they left the meeting at noon. They said that the scientists were not in the same field, that the fishers are the ones who go out on the water and have experience.

We've realized that, to the DFO, the fishers' experience is worth very little. The last thing I heard from someone in the upper echelons of DFO was that artificial intelligence would soon replace us. At least she was honest.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Artificial intelligence will replace fishers.

[Ghislain Cyr]

Yes.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

You'll have to explain that to me. I have no doubt that it will happen one day, but—

[Ghislain Cyr]

It's hard to explain and it's hard to hear. When you have 50 years of experience in all kinds of fishing, hearing that is difficult.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Yes.

Until recently, there was a consultation table, and the government ended it. Do you know why?

[Ghislain Cyr]

No.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Do you think it could be because there was a lack of understanding between the fishers and the other stakeholders around the consultation table, which might have made the fishers a bit—

[Ghislain Cyr]

Honestly, I admit that I did not attend all the meetings. The last meeting I attended took place in Moncton and was about groundfish. There were three fishers: two from Newfoundland and Labrador, and myself. The proof that it no longer works is that there were 100 coffee cups set out for 3 fishers. That tells you there's something wrong. You have to wonder.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Do you think it would be useful to set up a consultation table like that to facilitate understanding between the parties, as well as collaboration? If the connections are cut, it can't work and the fishers' voice can't be heard.

[Ghislain Cyr]

The problem is not with the scientists. I've always had a good relationship with them, regarding both marine mammals—which I've worked on with them for over 30 years—and groundfish. I fished for winter flounder for 25 years, and we worked on that very well together. However, in my opinion, the fishery was closed for no reason. The only reason they gave was that too many lobsters were being caught in the nets.

At the last meeting we had with them, they told us that the resource was doing better, that they needed fishers like me, who had been working with them for 25 years, to have baseline data, and that there had been an increase in stocks of 20% to 30% over the past year, with less fishing effort. However, they still decided to close the fishery. That's incomprehensible.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Earlier, you mentioned seal hunting. You talked about the migration of species, particularly because other predators had arrived in different areas. Seal hunting has been a social issue over the years. Now, I think we've moved past that troubled period and the seal is being highlighted again as a very interesting product.

In your opinion, is the regulation of seal hunting well adapted to the movement of species and to changes concerning the stocks in general?

[Ghislain Cyr]

We've been working on promoting seal hunting for 50 years now. For my part, the only thing I've seen DFO do is constantly create more regulations. Hunting opens in mid-September, when the storms begin, so we have far fewer opportunities to do it. It was also closed for part of the summer because they say there are tourists who go to see the seals. The tourists have stopped going to some places, yet they still don't open them up to hunting, which would at least give us the chance to have more stock to work with.

In short, there are more and more regulations. We are having difficulty adapting to the new rules because we went from hunting Greenland seals to hunting grey seals, which are really not the same species. It's not the same kind of hunt, but they don't want to adapt. The regulations are becoming increasingly strict.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thanks very much.

The bells began at 12:35. We can go until 12:50. I'm going to go to a second round. It's going to be a three-minute, three-minute, two-minute round. We can fit that in before we leave.

The second round begins with Mr. Gunn for three minutes, please, for the Conservatives.

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Madam Chair, I just want to enter into the record of evidence a press release from the Gitxsan Hereditary Chiefs related to harvest seasons. I have a physical copy here to share with the clerk.

Ms. Mavin, from your experience, do you find that decisions over at DFO regarding the opening and closing of various fisheries are always driven by science and empirical data, or do they at times tend to be influenced, in your view, by politics and ideology?

[Claire Mavin]

I personally don't believe that they're driven by science and empirical data. I think that it's mostly departmental policy. There doesn't seem to be a lot of base on biology, abundance or fleet competency. I think that the policies systematically penalize the commercial sector.

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I know you mentioned it in your opening remarks, but if the department fails to open a fishery in a timely manner despite there being abundance, can you detail what the impacts are on fish harvesters and their families?

[Claire Mavin]

A lot of it comes down to reduced income for fishermen, especially when you're fishing in the salmon fishery. A lot of the fish—all of the fish—come through on a migration, so if your opening is delayed, you miss out on a lot of income, and it impacts all of the harvesters negatively.

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

You spoke about both the quick closing of the prawn season last year and then the delayed notification that it was actually opening this year. Do you find that there's a lack of predictable communication from DFO regarding season opening and closing dates?

[Claire Mavin]

I do, absolutely. It's highly unpredictable at the moment. It doesn't seem to align with stock reports from actual fishermen.

All this does is create unnecessary hardships for fishermen. Running a fishing business is entirely dependent on timely notification. Lately, the notifications from DFO are late and erratic, and honestly, they're seemingly not based on stock strength.

[Aaron Gunn, Conservative, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Mr. Cormier, did you want to ask your question that was cut off?

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Gunn.

You said there was a group that was able to go out fishing for salmon before some other groups. What group is allowed to go first, and then who is second, third and fourth?

[Claire Mavin]

Those would be the recreational fishery and certain indigenous groups.