Fisheries Committee on Oct. 5th, 2026

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Welcome to meeting 47 of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108, the committee is meeting to continue its study of Atlantic salmon populations.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders. Pursuant to our routine motions, I would like to advise the committee members that all witnesses appearing virtually today have successfully conducted the required testing.

I would like to remind participants of the following points.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute yourself when not speaking. At the bottom of your screen, you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: either floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

I would like to remind witnesses that committee members may ask questions in either French or English. If you will need interpretation, please take a moment now to prepare your earpiece and select in advance the listening channel you will need in order to take full advantage of the time allotted for questions and answers.

As a reminder, all comments should be addressed through the chair.

For members in the room, if you wish to speak, raise your hand. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can, and we appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.

I now would like to welcome our witnesses.

We have with us, appearing as an individual, Dr. Gary Anderson, Atlantic salmon angler and conservationist, by video conference; from Gaspé Coastal, Andrew Murphy, co-owner; from Save Miramichi Salmon Inc., John Bagnall, biologist, and Alex Mills, lawyer, both by video conference; and from the Wolastoqey Nation in New Brunswick, Dr. Colin Curry, fisheries lead, by video conference.

We will start with the witnesses' opening statements for five minutes or less, starting with Dr. Anderson.

Mr. Anderson, please go ahead.

[Gary Anderson, Atlantic Salmon Angler and Conservationist, As an Individual]

I've been a devout fly fisherman all of my life. I've fly-fished on five continents and in several oceans for a wide variety of species, and I have spent a significant amount of time living near and fishing the Miramichi River, which I've done for 50 years. I fish here for salmon, striped bass, trout and shad. I've witnessed the increase of the striper population and its effects on the runs of Atlantic salmon and all of the species I fish.

I learned an important lesson about fisheries management in 1991. It showed me what can be accomplished when a government has a clear goal and institutes effective and efficient means to achieve it. Let me share how I learned this lesson.

Based on my publications on Atlantic salmon, I was invited to explore salmon rivers in Russia, which had never been fished by western anglers, to assess their potential for sports fishing. As you can imagine, it was a challenging assignment. Over the next six years, I made one or two trips each summer and explored 16 rivers on the Kola Peninsula. Until the Iron Curtain opened, little was known about Russian salmon, or if and how the fishery was managed.

The Varzuga was my first Russian river. I was dropped, along with a unilingual Russian, by helicopter at the junction of the Varzuga and Pana rivers. Together, we floated a raft for over a week, and observed the river and a great many salmon jumping and also taking my flies. It's hard to imagine, but the Varzuga has an annual run of 150,000 salmon.

How does a river have such a prolific run? Beyond its conducive ecological conditions and geography, its salmon run is managed by a very simple and efficient system. The Russians did not fish for salmon at sea or along the coastline. They waited for the salmon to return to their natal river, and they harvested them there, allowing sufficient escapement to keep the salmon sustainable—a simple solution, but very effective.

We need to consider a few striper management policies that will begin to restore our Atlantic salmon numbers. To better align with the goal of increased salmon stocks, we should reduce the overall striper population to about 100,000, and do so before the species expands its spawning to other locations. There are no real trade-offs, so it should be an easy policy decision. Other presenters have suggested two means to achieve a reduced population: increase the first nations commercial fishery and allow the gaspereau fishermen to keep the striper bycatch. I endorse these means.

In addition, the angling catch needs attention. I suggest two changes. My first suggestion is to eliminate any reference to slot size. The slot retention policy is counterproductive. It encourages DFO conservation officers to expend major effort in monitoring things that make no overall contribution to the goal of conservation of the salmon population. Removing the lower end, the 50-centimetre minimum, would enable first-time anglers and children to retain a striper if they so chose. Removing the maximum of 65 centimetres would help achieve population reduction.

Almost all the large stripers are female, and they produce much more progeny than smaller females do. Allowing retention of larger fish would also enhance the value of the striper sport fishery. People are motivated to catch big fish, and we should let them to bolster the sport fishery itself.

My other suggestion is that the daily catch limit—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Mr. Anderson, we're at five minutes. We're actually over five minutes. You can get the rest of your statements in during the questions session afterwards.

[Gary Anderson]

We should either increase or eliminate the daily catch limit. These changes would help—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Mr. Anderson, can you hear me?

[Gary Anderson]

Yes.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

We're over the five minutes allowed for opening statements, so I'll have to ask you to provide this during the questions if you can. Thank you.

Andrew Murphy, go ahead for five minutes, please.

[Andrew Murphy, co-owner, Gaspé Coastal]

Thank you Mr. Chair and committee members.

My wife, Sarah Nellis, and I own an outfitting business in Chaleur Bay, where we offer Atlantic salmon, striped bass and brook trout fishing trips. Our future depends on the sound management of these species.

Everyone here shares the same objective: to restore healthy Atlantic salmon populations.

The concerns surrounding striped bass in the Miramichi deserve our attention, but our strategy to restore Atlantic salmon for all of Canada should not be based solely on those concerns.

Striped bass predation on salmon is documented. We must take it into account, but we must especially maintain an approach that addresses a multifactorial environment. Every river has different conditions, and salmon face pressures all along a journey that connects our watershed to the north Atlantic. Our response should cover Atlantic Canada and Quebec, while respecting the realities of each population.

The federal investment of $81.7 million over five years that was announced represents a significant opportunity to act. Let's give organizations the means to transform this commitment into sustainable benefits.

I suggest three priorities.

First, we should pursue and strengthen local actions with well-documented benefits. Watershed organizations, river managers and indigenous organizations must be able to retain their staff, schedule work and monitor their results over several years. Thorough scientific monitoring requires time, resources and consistency.

We must preserve the drainage basins that are still in good condition and restore those that are damaged. We need to consider the cumulative effects of our forestry, farming, infrastructure and industrial development practices on the water and the habitats in the drainage basin travelled by Atlantic salmon.

For critically low populations, time is running out. We must support conservation stocking when it is scientifically warranted, with projects that are tailored to the population concerned and closely monitored.

These actions require a coordinated plan and the means to expedite them starting immediately.

Second, we should support research on the marine migration and survival of Atlantic salmon, and existing monitoring. We should rely on the knowledge acquired to better understand what happens from the moment they exit the estuaries, into the Gulf of St. Lawrence, into the Strait of Belle Isle and into the north Atlantic. Ocean conditions, food, disease, accidental captures and predators should be considered as a whole to understand the losses and identify the most useful interventions.

We must also address the risks associated with open-cage farming of Atlantic salmon, specifically the transmission of disease and the destruction of ocean environments. The government announced that such cages will be banned in British Columbia by June 2029, to protect wild Pacific salmon, while currently supporting the growth of open-net pen aquaculture in the Atlantic region. This difference in direction demands explanation.

Atlantic salmon deserves clear commitments, too. We should direct public funding toward aquacultural practices that reduce those risks, while supporting workers and communities.

Third, funding must be made accessible, consistent and transparent. Deposit delays and red tape should not hinder the completion of good projects. Make it easier to access funding and give organizations the time and support needed to build solid partnerships and take action.

The priorities should reflect the needs of the populations and the expected benefits. Make the amounts invested, the objectives and the outcomes accessible so as to improve our decisions. This rigour should also guide any intervention on predators, including striped bass and seal. Clarify the expected benefits for salmon, the uncertainties, the consequences on the identified species, and the conditions for adjusting or stopping a measure.

Remember that striped bass is an indigenous species that supports accessible fishing and a booming recreational and tourism economy. According to the 2027 Quebec plan, this fishery contributes over $37 million to GDP and generates some 400 jobs in Quebec alone.

The gulf’s highly migratory striped bass population frequents the shores of Quebec, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia. Its management in the Miramichi, where the population's only known spawning ground is located, could have consequences well beyond that river. Any major decisions should be based on the best scientific knowledge available and on fair and equitable consultations with the communities concerned.

In conclusion, throughout our regions, citizens, harvesters and committed entrepreneurs support a dynamic and resilient recreational fishing economy based on both salmon and striped bass. Our contribution to the vitality of our communities and the protection of aquatic environments deserves to be fully recognized.

Our community deserves commitments that match our efforts and true value: sustainable co-operation between governments, researchers, indigenous organizations and communities, genuine knowledge sharing, and educational and awareness support.

We need the means to protect and restore the wild fish populations that enrich our waters. Let us ensure that the investments in the next five years leave behind a sustainable legacy, healthy ecosystems and vibrant communities, ensuring that people will be able to discover the joy of fishing for generations.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you, Mr. Murphy.

We'll now go to Alex Mills with Save Miramichi Salmon Inc.

[Alex Mills, Lawyer, Save Miramichi Salmon Inc.]

Thank you, honourable Chairman, for inviting us and giving Save Miramichi Salmon an opportunity to address the committee.

I'm here with John Bagnall. John is our science director and has a wealth of information surrounding the science applicable to these issues.

I would start by acknowledging that I am speaking from unceded Mi'kmaq territory. I won't be following my speaking notes. I'll be as brief as possible, hopefully well within the five minutes.

I will tell you a little bit about our organization. Save Miramichi Salmon is, if I can use a term, a recently spawned non-profit advocacy group focusing on Atlantic salmon and conservation on the Miramichi River. We have a constituency that is made up of guides, outfitters, upriver municipalities at the moment, private fisheries owners and conservationists. We do not represent first nations, although we certainly respect their position and their priority access, and we do our best to keep them abreast of what we are doing and engaging with them on all fronts. We are trying to reach out more effectively to the striped bass fishing community and to the municipalities that derive an immense amount of revenue from them.

We have delivered a certain amount of material to you. A year ago, we provided a detailed submission, which I understand is part of the record, and has been translated and is available. We have also provided you with speaking notes that have been translated. Additionally, we provided another document that we did not meet the translation date for and it was limited in its circulation to our MP on the Miramichi and to the mover of the motion, with apologies, honourable Serge Cormier. That information is there.

Our message is simple, and it's condensed from what Gary has testified and what Mr. Murphy has testified and all the others before us. We have a crisis facing Atlantic salmon and other species on the Miramichi. It's not climate related and it's not habitat related. It is striped bass related. If DFO does not see that, they are blind. If you come close to the Miramichi River in the months of May and June, what is happening with striped bass will amaze you . If you are around the river much through the summer, you will see striped bass in places where you have never seen them.

What has to be done? It's exactly what the other witnesses have said today and others before us. It's not rocket science. We would add that there needs to be a major enhancement effort focused on the Miramichi hatchery and engaging in the most progressive variety of stocking and utilization of the hatchery facilities on an interim basis at least to get us through the crisis. We're advised there are some very interesting ways that are being utilized on the west coast in the nature of SAS stocking programs. Another interesting one I've heard about is kelt reconditioning, which is being used successfully, I'm told. In any case, that is the second part of what we've been saying to DFO since November 2024.

The third peg of our position and perhaps the most difficult one is that we feel there is some kind of bottleneck in Moncton with the gulf management that is impacting the ability to take the action, the ability to do what this committee had directed it to do, the ability to make decisions on stocking that are without any question required at the moment. There is a—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

We're past five minutes now, so hopefully the rest of what you want to say will come out in responses to questions.

We'll now conclude the opening remarks with Dr. Curry for five minutes, please.

[Colin Curry, Fisheries Lead, Wolastoqey Nation in New Brunswick]

Good afternoon, Chair and members of the committee.

My name is Dr. Colin Curry, and I'm the fisheries lead with the Wolastoqey Nation in New Brunswick. I'm here on behalf of New Brunswick's Wolastoqey communities to speak about the decline of Atlantic salmon in the Wolastoq or Saint John River and the role of the Mactaquac biodiversity facility in maintaining the capacity to recover this population.

The outer Bay of Fundy population of Atlantic salmon is one of Canada's most significant conservation challenges.

The Committee on the Status of Endangered Wildlife in Canada, COSEWIC, recognized it as a unique designatable unit in 2010 and assessed it as endangered. More than 90% of the available productive freshwater habitat for this population is in the Wolastoq watershed. Upwards of 30,000 salmon returned to the Wolastoq each year in the late 1940s, but that was a fraction of the number that returned prior to industrialization.

In recent years, fewer than 500 wild fish have returned annually to the Mactaquac dam, though 2026 has seen a modest increase. This decline is associated with multiple interacting pressures, including poor marine survival, habitat impacts, barriers to fish passage, climate change, invasive species and pollution.

For the Wolastoqiyik, however, this is more than a conservation issue. Polamuwok, Atlantic salmon, are kin. They have been central to Wolastoqey food systems, culture, ceremony, community well-being and responsibilities to future generations since time immemorial.

The closure of salmon fisheries on the Wolastoq in 1998 reduced opportunities for harvesting, cultural practices and the intergenerational transfer of knowledge. The continued absence of harvestable salmon also affects the practical exercise of constitutionally protected food, social and ceremonial fishing rights.

The Mactaquac biodiversity facility has been part of the salmon conservation story on the Wolastoq for more than five decades. It was established in 1968 through a memorandum of agreement between the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans and the New Brunswick Electric Power Corporation in recognition of the impact the construction of the Mactaquac generating station would have on Atlantic salmon in the river. The 1968 agreement assigned the federal government responsibility for operating, maintaining, repairing and replacing the facility whose purpose included maintaining salmon populations in the Wolastoq.

The facility's role has evolved with science and, since 2001, it has primarily supported smolt-to-adult supplementation in the Tobique River, the largest salmon-bearing tributary in the Wolastoq system. It has also supported a live gene bank for endangered inner Bay of Fundy salmon as well as research, public education and monitoring. These programs are not presented as a solution to poor marine survival, which remains a major limiting factor. Their purpose is to preserve genetic diversity, maintain spawning capacity and freshwater production and keep recovery options available until marine conditions improve.

That distinction is important when evaluating the facility. Low numbers of naturally returning adults reflect cumulative mortality across the salmon life cycle, including freshwater migration, hydro power facilities and marine survival. They do not on their own demonstrate that freshwater conservation programs have no value. The conservation objective is to maintain a viable biological foundation for recovery.

Our submission therefore focuses on continuity during a period of transition. When the closure of the Mactaquac biodiversity facility was announced in January of this year, the Wolastoqey took action to ensure vital polamuwok conservation programs were maintained.

In July of this year, the minister acknowledged the necessity of the Tobique program and agreed to an extension for the Mactaquac biodiversity facility while partners work toward realizing this transition.

Our submission proposes an interim approach that keeps the Mactaquac biodiversity facility operating while DFO, Wolastoqey nations, New Brunswick Power and other partners develop a long-term governance and operational model. Our vision is that the Tobique's smolt-to-adult supplementation program will be maintained and ultimately expanded while creating greater opportunities for Wolastoqey leadership participation in decision-making authority.

This is also an opportunity to consider lessons from DFO's Pacific region, where federally funded salmon facilities support enhancement, research, monitoring, education and partnerships with indigenous communities and local organizations.

The central theme of our submission is that Atlantic salmon recovery must be considered not only in terms of immediate fish numbers but also in terms of the restoration capacity, knowledge, infrastructure, genetic resources and relationships that must be maintained for recovery to remain possible.

The recovery of polamuwok will not be possible overnight. It will require sustained investment and co-operation from all levels of government and industry. In many senses, polamuwok recovery will be a nation-building project.

For the Wolastoqey people, restoring—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

You can wrap up. We're at five minutes.

[Colin Curry]

I'm almost finished.

For the Wolastoqey people, restoring polamuwok means restoring both an endangered population and an enduring relationship between people and the river and salmon.

Woliwon. Thank you and merci for the opportunity to address the committee.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you to all of the witnesses.

Five minutes go by really quickly.

I'd like to turn now, in our first round of questioning, to Mr. Bragdon, who is no stranger to this committee, having served in previous parliaments here.

Mr. Bragdon, go ahead for six minutes.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to each of the witnesses today. It was nice to hear each of your testimonies. We listened, and you all brought a very important perspective to the table on this absolutely vital subject, which is especially important to the Atlantic region and in my district in particular as well, obviously.

Dr. Curry was speaking about the Saint John River, the Wolastoqey way and the importance of salmon not only to the Wolastoqey people but also to the entire history of our province, whether it's the sports fishery, the recreational fishery or a first nations community. Of course, when you get into the Miramichi in New Brunswick and the mighty Miramichi River, the importance of salmon to recreational fisheries or sport fisheries cannot be overemphasized. All of us want to see a healthy recovery of salmon stocks, and we know the challenges ahead are great.

I'd like to direct my question to you, Dr. Curry.

We know that the Mactaquac biodiversity facility, which I had the privilege of visiting this summer, supports the Tobique smolts and basically the smolt-to-adult supplementation program. How important is it that there is no gap in the program while long-term approaches to salmon recovery are being developed?

[Colin Curry]

In my opinion, that would be critically important. Unfortunately, this spring, due to the uncertainty at the time, smolts were not collected. However, pre-smolt collection is currently ongoing in conjunction with the Tobique First Nation's aboriginal fisheries strategy program and NB Power.

The reason there needs to be continuity in the programs and that we can't just pause this for a few years is that if we do, then we lose out on the opportunity to really build momentum with the in-river component of the program, where the adults that have returned for spawning are given a chance to produce new offspring. Hopefully, the number of offspring that we're building over time will increase. However, without that supplementation, it would have to be conducted solely by wild spawning, and that will be a challenge in the coming few years with the temporary closure of the fish passage facilities.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thanks, Dr. Curry. I have to squeeze in a few questions here in a short period of time.

Having been in discussions with both the chief at Kingsclear First Nation and the chief and those who work at Tobique First Nation with regard to salmon recovery, I know that the absolutely vital importance of this program and the Mactaquac biodiversity facility and the great work they do cannot be overstated.

Do you believe that there was adequate consultation with the Wolastoqey First Nation when they made the initial decision and since then in developing a strategy going forward?

[Colin Curry]

I would say that prior to the announcement of the closure, the consultation hadn't been adequate. It caught all of our communities off guard. In years prior, we had even been discussing with the DFO the potential options for replacement of the facility or for upgrades to that facility because, obviously, being a 50-year-old facility, it needed some upgrading.

Since July—

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Dr. Curry.

I want to ask you, as well as Mr. Bagnall and Mr. Mills, about salmon in New Brunswick in both river systems. We've had many reports done by this committee and others. Many studies have been conducted. Many announcements have been made.

In all of your estimations, has there been meaningful uptake and action in the areas that have been identified in the reports to this point and in what has been given anecdotally but also from those closest to the situation for years as to practical steps that could be done to help with the recovery of salmon stocks?

I'll start with you, Mr. Bagnall. Then I'll go to Mr. Mills and end with Dr. Curry. Thank you. Please speak quickly on this.

[John Bagnall, Biologist, Save Miramichi Salmon Inc.]

DFO has raised the commercial limit to 175,000 bass, but in my opinion and in my calculation, this is not nearly enough. In the last few years, the survival of bass has really increased. It has doubled over the 2000s.

There is so much recruitment and so many new fish entering the population that the harvest has to be increased—probably, in an initial year, to get it down to 100,000—to 450,000 bass a year. That probably would be 300,000 commercial and 150,000 recreational. It should stay above 100,000 for a while.

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you so much.

I'll turn to the other two now.

I have 45 seconds, so you'll each have about 15 to 20 seconds, please.

[Alex Mills]

If you are addressing it to me, no, I don't think they have at all. John knows the numbers on it. We see what is not happening on the river. We see the loss of salmon. We see the loss of business. We see the frustration of first nations. They may have a quota, but they need capacity building. DFO has not been there to assist them on that front, so—

[Richard Bragdon, Conservative, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you. I'm sorry to cut you off, but maybe you can get that in during the next round.

Dr. Curry, can you finish it off?

[Colin Curry]

I would say the track record is mixed. On the capacity note, there was a program set up to help first nations with capacity. It lasted for a year and then kind of fell by the wayside. Obviously, there has been help through aboriginal fisheries strategy programs over the years, but funding for many of those programs has remained stagnant for certain communities.