Fisheries Committee on Oct. 26th, 2026

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 50 of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. Pursuant to Standing Order 108, the committee is meeting to continue its study of Atlantic salmon populations.

Today's meeting will take place in a hybrid format, pursuant to Standing Orders.

Pursuant to our routine motions, I'd like to advise committee members that all witnesses appearing virtually today have successfully conducted the required audio testing.

I would like to remind participants of the following points. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. At the bottom of your screen, you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: floor audio, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the desired earpiece to select the desired channel.

I'd like to remind witnesses that committee members may ask questions in French or English. If you need interpretation, please take a moment now to prepare your earpiece and select the listening channel you need in advance in order to take full advantage of the time allotted for questions and answers.

This is a reminder that all comments should be addressed through the chair. For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will do our best to manage the speaking order, and we appreciate your patience in that regard.

I'd like to now welcome our witnesses, and I apologize for a bit of a delay in starting, due to a vote in the House. I'll start by welcoming, from the Fort Folly First Nation, Wendy Epworth, director of conservation programs, as well as Tim Robinson, director of salmon recovery programs. From Spruce City Wildlife Association, we have Dustin Snyder, president. From the Foundation for Conservation of Atlantic Salmon, we have Raymond Lacroix, president and chairman; as well as Charline McCoy, executive director.

We'll start with the witnesses' opening statements for five minutes or less—that's per organization. We will start with Wendy Epworth for five minutes, if you'd like.

[Wendy Epworth, Director, Conservation Programs, Fort Folly First Nation]

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee, for the invitation to appear today.

My name is Wendy Epworth, and this is my colleague, Tim Robinson. We are here on behalf of Chief Rebecca Knockwood of Fort Folly First Nation.

Fort Folly is a partner in Fundy Salmon Recovery, which is an innovative collaboration involving academia, governmental organizations and the aquaculture industry to recover endangered inner Bay of Fundy Atlantic salmon on the New Brunswick side of the bay. That work covers the rivers in Fundy National Park, the Petitcodiac River and now the Big Salmon River.

We want to leave you with one message. Atlantic salmon and the communities and first nations connected to them deserve the same federal commitment as salmon on the Pacific.

For thousands of years, salmon have been food, ceremony and identity for nations of the Wabanaki Confederacy, and access to them is a constitutionally protected right. Salmon matter to rural communities, too.

A study for the Atlantic Salmon Federation valued Atlantic salmon in eastern Canada at about $255 million per year, but their worth goes well beyond dollars. When a river loses its salmon, a community loses part of who it is.

The inner Bay of Fundy population remains on the brink, and many other Atlantic salmon populations are in decline. Predation is one reason, and it weighs more heavily as salmon numbers fall. For more than a decade, people on the Miramichi have raised the rapidly growing striped bass population as a serious concern, while salmon numbers in that river have kept on declining. Seal populations on the Atlantic coast have also grown substantially. When salmon populations are this small, every predator counts, and these imbalances deserve timely attention.

The effects of climate change, while concerning, are not a reason to give up. We can focus recovery and habitat restoration on rivers with cold-water refugia and protect the headwaters and the land that keep them cool. Canada has already committed to protecting 30% of its lands and waters by 2030. Choosing lands that protect cold-water salmon habitat serves both goals at once.

On the west coast, DFO has funded salmon conservation, including freshwater hatchery capacity, every year since 1977, and in 2021, it added $647 million more. On the east coast, the response has been smaller and slower. This spring, the government committed $81.7 million over five years, which is the largest federal investment in Atlantic salmon yet. That is a real step forward, and I thank the government for it, but it is about one-eighth of the Pacific investment. Over time, support for salmon conservation here has been taken away, while on the west coast, it has grown.

We do not raise this to pit one coast against the other. Pacific salmon deserve that attention. Atlantic salmon, and the people connected to them, deserve it too.

Salmon cannot adapt if they disappear while we are learning what is driving their decline. Some threats we will be able to address, and some may shift on their own over time. Meanwhile, innovative recovery work, including hatchery support, is what keeps salmon in our rivers.

On the west coast, new hatcheries are still being built. Here, they are being closed. In our careers, all three hatcheries that have supported inner Bay of Fundy salmon programs have closed or are closing, with Mactaquac in New Brunswick being the latest.

Hatcheries are an essential tool, but they are not the only one. Fundy salmon recovery requires hatchery capacity at this time but goes well beyond traditional juvenile stocking. It is showing positive results in published research and on the rivers for both salmon populations and the ecosystems they support, and others want to adopt a similar model. Together, hatcheries and approaches like ours can build salmon numbers over time, so that there are enough fish in our rivers for adaptation to be possible at all.

We would ask the committee to consider recommending real co-management with first nations, including decision-making roles in assessment and recovery on their rivers. Provide long-term, stable funding for Atlantic salmon recovery, including hatcheries and approaches like Fundy Salmon Recovery's, which means continuing the $81.7-million commitment, at its current level at least, beyond its five years, because recovery is a long-term commitment. Take timely action on the threats we can address now, such as predator-prey imbalances and the protection of headwaters and cold-water habitat.

Atlantic salmon have survived ice ages. Whether they survive this century depends on choices made in rooms like this.

Thank you. We welcome your questions.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Thank you, Ms. Epworth.

Mr. Cormier needs to do a sound check now. We can do that before we move on to our next witness.

Go ahead, Mr. Cormier.

[Serge Cormier, Liberal, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I had some IT issues, so I wasn't sure whether everybody was able to hear me well in the room—whether my sound was good.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Your sound is good, Mr. Cormier. Thank you.

We'll now move to Mr. Snyder for five minutes.

[Dustin Snyder, President, Spruce City Wildlife Association]

Hello. Thank you to the committee for having me today. When I was first asked to speak to this committee regarding Atlantic salmon, I admit that I thought there was some sort of mistake, as I am from the Pacific region.

I'm the president of the Spruce City Wildlife Association, which operates a conservation Chinook hatchery in northern B.C. We're the most technologically advanced volunteer facility in B.C., and that's because we're the only volunteer facility in B.C. that works with threatened and endangered stocks.

Regarding Atlantic salmon, I feel we need to look at how we can move beyond these lasting declines and into a community-driven effort. I believe one answer may lie on Canada's west coast.

DFO's salmonid enhancement program, or SEP, offers a model worth considering for Atlantic Canada. SEP's 2019 report demonstrates what can happen when government investment, scientific expertise, indigenous knowledge and community can come together. In 2019-20, SEP supported community partners and released millions of juvenile salmon for conservation and rebuilding, supported habitat restoration projects and helped engage thousands of people through salmon education and stewardship initiatives. Remarkably, some of SEP's contributions helped leverage $25 for every $1 of SEP funding. This means that for every $1 the government put in, the community found and added $24 more. That's a powerful example of how strategic public investment can mobilize resources, and it demonstrates the power of partnerships and how they can multiply public dollars.

An Atlantic salmonid enhancement program built around local watersheds with some stable multi-year funding to indigenous communities, conservation groups and local non-profits could help change the future of Atlantic salmon. These partners could operate community hatcheries where justified, monitor salmon returns and spawning grounds, and restore habitat where necessary. It would put communities in partnership at the heart of recovery, engage youth community members in raising salmon under the expert guidance of the department, engage volunteers monitoring rivers and their conditions, and spur local organizations to help restore stream banks and remove barriers to migration. These activities would not simply support salmon recovery. They would create environmental knowledge, strengthen community connections and inspire the next generation of conservation.

Most importantly, we need to follow the science. Atlantic salmon face complex threats, degraded habitat, predator-prey imbalance and low marine survival. I will note that hatcheries alone cannot solve these problems. Any enhancement program must focus on healthy habitat, predator management and the protection of genetic integrity through carefully monitored enhancement, as well as the use of genetic diversity measures such as matrix spawning. Enhancement programs also open up the potential to learn more from the fish being handled. Tagging programs to monitor migration and survival, genetic samples and sampling for disease can all be done by the community with the support and oversight of the department.

I will note that success should be measured by increased salmon survival and natural reproduction, not by the number of fish produced and released from facilities.

Finally, government must recognize that it would be an investment in both the ecosystem and the communities. SEP's experience shows how public funding can attract additional investment, build local capacity, create employment and sustain public stewardship. An Atlantic version of SEP could apply the same principles as Pacific SEP while measuring its own outcomes and creating its own goals, including adult salmon returns, volunteer participation and, of course, long-term population recovery.

I'm not at all suggesting copying the Pacific program exactly. Learn what it has demonstrated and build something that reflects the unique rivers, communities and salmon populations of Atlantic Canada. The future of Atlantic salmon will depend on more than government policy or hatchery production. It will depend on whether government gives communities the resources, knowledge and opportunity to become active partners in their recovery. At the Spruce City Wildlife Association, this is what we call conservation for the future generations.

Thank you.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, Kamloops—Shuswap—Central Rockies, BC]

Thank you. So far, you've both been under time.

I will now turn to Raymond Lacroix for five minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Raymond Lacroix, President and Chairman, The Foundation for Conservation of Atlantic Salmon]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for inviting me to give evidence before you today.

My name is Raymond Lacroix. I am the president of the Foundation for Conservation of Atlantic Salmon. I am accompanied by Ms. McCoy, who is the organization's executive director.

The foundation is a registered charity that was established in 2007 thanks to an endowment fund of over $30 million from the federal government. Indeed, it was this committee that recommended its creation back in 2004. Our mandate specifically focuses on the conservation, restoration and sustainable future of wild Atlantic salmon and their habitat in the Atlantic provinces and Quebec. We invest in conservation, support applied scientific research, bring partners together and promote the practical application of knowledge.

The foundation is not a lobbying or advocacy organization. It comprises a diverse and inclusive interprovincial board of directors, as well as advisory committees for each of the provinces—the four Atlantic provinces and Quebec—which include government representatives, first nations representatives and experts. We also have a scientific advisory committee that is similarly interprovincial, diverse and inclusive. The foundation comprises more than 65 volunteers. We also have four permanent staff based in Fredericton.

Over the past 20 years and more, the foundation has invested over $20 million in more than 1,000 conservation and research projects in the Atlantic provinces and Quebec. In 2027 alone, our contribution will exceed $2 million. These investments have helped to mobilize significant additional contributions from governments, indigenous organizations, conservation groups, researchers, communities and other partners.

This interprovincial experience gives the foundation a somewhat unique perspective on the challenges facing Atlantic salmon. We recognize that there is no single cause for the decline of wild Atlantic salmon and that, consequently, there is no single solution to this decline either.

Pressures vary from river to river and from region to region. These may include habitat degradation, changes in ocean and freshwater conditions, barriers to fish passage, predation—notably by seals and striped bass—aquaculture, climate change and other sources of mortality throughout the salmon's life cycle.

The issues examined by this committee, particularly those relating to striped bass, seals, mortality during migration and other factors, are significant. They also demonstrate why decisions concerning Atlantic salmon must be based on robust, up-to-date and transparent scientific data.

Our foundation has a scientific advisory committee which sets research priorities and recommends funding for applied research projects. Through this committee, we have supported research into several of the issues affecting Atlantic salmon populations. These projects undergo scientific evaluation, and the results help to build the knowledge needed to understand the decline of salmon and guide conservation decisions.

At the same time, advances in scientific knowledge must be translated into concrete action on the ground. Every year, the foundation supports community and indigenous organizations, catchment groups and other partners carrying out practical conservation work: habitat restoration, improving fish passages, monitoring populations and water conditions, collecting data, raising community awareness and building local capacity.

One of the lessons we have learned from these investments made over the past 20 years and more is that local organizations play a vital role in the recovery of Atlantic salmon. They know and love their rivers, they have long-standing relationships with their communities and, in many cases, they have been collecting valuable data for decades.

However, these organizations cannot do this alone; they need medium and long-term support.

The recovery of Atlantic salmon will require ongoing collaboration between various governments—namely the federal and provincial governments—as well as indigenous partners, conservation organizations, researchers and local communities. We need to coordinate our investments and data more effectively so that limited resources are directed where they can have the greatest impact.

The foundation supports the national strategy to ensure the future of Atlantic salmon. We believe this strategy represents a significant opportunity to move from individual efforts towards a better-coordinated collective approach based on clear priorities, measurable outcomes and accountability for the results achieved.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

We are now at five minutes. Could you please wrap up quickly?

[Raymond Lacroix]

Agreed.

I would like to make three points: We must continue to invest in scientific research; we must invest for the long term; we must continue to improve coordination.

The foundation has been in existence for 20 years, and we are here to continue contributing to the conservation of Atlantic salmon.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mel Arnold]

Thank you for wrapping up quickly.

We'll now go to the first round of questions, starting with Mr. Small for six minutes, please.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My first question is for Ms. Epworth.

Ms. Epworth, do you agree that Atlantic salmon river runs need to be in critical condition before salmon enhancement by use of hatcheries or by use of the technology that Cooke provided in the inner Bay of Fundy can be deployed to bring up salmon populations in Atlantic Canada?

[Wendy Epworth]

No, I don't agree. I think it poses a great risk to wait until the population is critically depleted before intervening, because once a population is so depressed, it takes a much bigger effort to recover it.

From a genetic perspective, if you are waiting until enhancement fish pose a huge genetic risk to your remaining wild fish, you have waited too long. You can imagine that your wild population are the fittest fish in your river, so any enhancement that you do to keep those numbers up should be at a lower degree so as not to pose a risk to those fish. If you wait until there are hardly any fish left, then I would say you have waited too long.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Is it widely known that this attitude exists within the DFO? Does the general public or do anglers in general know that the DFO is opposed to enhancing rivers until they're basically wiped out? Is that a well-known fact?

[Wendy Epworth]

I think on the east coast it is, at this point, because there have been a lot of groups that have been advocating intervention for quite some time, and the DFO has not acted on those recommendations.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

You mentioned groups that are advocating salmon enhancement. Are there any groups that are standing in the way of it and trying to influence the minister or influence those within our department who will be making decisions on salmon enhancement by telling them that salmon enhancement would harm the gene pool?

[Wendy Epworth]

I think there are members of the department who hold the genetic purity of fish to a very high standard, but anybody who works with Atlantic salmon and who works on the ground level understands that these communities want salmon to persist in the rivers and that it is essential to the fabric of Atlantic Canada that Atlantic salmon remain in the rivers.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

You are involved with the Petitcodiac project with Cooke.

[Wendy Epworth]

Yes.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Do you know if Cooke has offered to provide that program on the Miramichi?

[Wendy Epworth]

I'm not specifically aware of other entities that Cooke may or may not be in discussions with. I know that a lot of groups have been expressing interest in a similar model. They have been very supportive, in our experience, of what we're doing, so I would suspect that they would help other people keep Atlantic salmon in the rivers.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you.

Mr. Snyder, thank you for coming all of the way from “Super, Natural” British Columbia, where you've done fantastic work in maintaining the salmon runs in your rivers.

Last year, someone in the riding of Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame who was interested in boosting the salmon population in the Indian River went to DFO and wanted to form a volunteer group to reactivate the salmon enhancement program that existed in the late 1980s and early 1990s. They were told by DFO that this was impossible unless that river's salmon run was in danger of going extinct.

Do you agree that a river's salmon run should be in danger of going extinct before DFO would support some kind of enhancement?

[Dustin Snyder]

No, definitely not. I'd support the previous statement by Wendy that being proactive is a lot more beneficial than being reactive. Setting targets for where these fish should be at certain levels and keeping them there or working to maintain that level is very important, again, to getting down to the genetic diversity issue that we've faced in northern B.C. with our endangered runs. There's a lot more work and effort that has to be put into that to ensure that you have that genetic diversity. Again, if you're getting volunteers involved, that's a win-win. As I said, in B.C., for every dollar the government puts into SEP, our founder created $24 more to put into that program. That's a pretty good bang for the buck.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Setting my next question, Mr. Snyder, how much per year does your program receive from DFO in funding?

[Dustin Snyder]

We currently receive $15,000 a year. That is on a year-by-year basis. That is not a guaranteed thing.