Evidence of meeting #9 for Subcommittee on Food Safety in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was inspectors.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:45 p.m.
Associate Vice-President, Operations, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Absolutely not. We hope these folks are here to express their personal opinion based on the environment they work in. Doing so will help further the business of this committee.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Thank you.
We talked earlier with witnesses here, including Mr. Kingston, about the verification reports that miraculously were changed, going back to February 11. Seven such reports were all changed on the same day, August 26. Is that a common practice among inspectors to, all of a sudden over a six-month period, amend reports?
It's open to anyone.
5:45 p.m.
Food Processing Supervisor, Complex 3 - Toronto, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
It is not really a common practice. If there is an in-depth audit or if there is a compliance verification system team doing a review on the facility and if they require clarification on some of the wording the inspector may have put in his report, they might do that. It's a clarification as to maybe some of the wording they've written there.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
I guess, Mr. Irons, it seems rather strange that seven reports over a six-month period would all of a sudden be amended on August 26. Do you not find that strange?
5:45 p.m.
Food Processing Supervisor, Complex 3 - Toronto, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
No. My understanding is that there was an in-depth review being conducted at that time. I was not present, but my understanding is that the people doing the auditing were asking for clarification on some of the wording in the reports. I have not seen the reports, but my understanding is, again, that all he did was clarify what he was saying in his report.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Seeing as you're on deck at the moment--and we'll come back to the inspectors later, Mr. Irons--from your own perspective, do you feel you had the resources to properly implement CVS prior to the listeriosis outbreak?
5:45 p.m.
Food Processing Supervisor, Complex 3 - Toronto, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
No, I do not.
5:45 p.m.
Food Processing Supervisor, Complex 3 - Toronto, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
To implement that 100%, no, I do not.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
What has to be done? Certainly as Mr. Kingston said—and I think we and most people would agree there have been more resources put in place—the system has improved since listeriosis. What really has to be done to get it to where it has to be?
5:45 p.m.
Food Processing Supervisor, Complex 3 - Toronto, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
For the compliance verification system, depending on the number of tasks, we would need more staff to create it 100%. As for the greater numbers I would need in the area of my supervision, I could not tell you off the top of my head without doing some kind of research.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Immediately prior to listeriosis, was it grossly worse than it is today in terms of having the resources necessary to prevent an outbreak?
5:50 p.m.
Food Processing Supervisor, Complex 3 - Toronto, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Yes, we were grossly resource-starved at the time, prior.
5:50 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
One thing I think we should have been able to do as a committee, and we really need to do, is go to the plant or a number of plants. I've been in several plants, but they're all different, and this would give us a better handle on the practices there. The resources—human, financial, technology, and equipment—what were they?
5:50 p.m.
Food Processing Supervisor, Complex 3 - Toronto, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Basically they're human. When we're carrying out inspections, the inspection does not only consist of CVS. There are other related duties the inspectors are involved in.
5:50 p.m.
Conservative
5:50 p.m.
Bloc
André Bellavance Bloc Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Ms. Fowler and Mr. Stamatakis, I just want to understand correctly, before we begin.
Is it the Canadian Food Inspection Agency that asked you to come and testify today or did you come on your own initiative? How did you end up being witnesses today?
5:50 p.m.
James Stamatakis Inspector, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
I can speak on my behalf. I was invited to show up. I didn't ask to come. I was told that if I would like to show up they would appreciate my showing up.
5:50 p.m.
Bloc
André Bellavance Bloc Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Was it your bosses from the agency who asked you to come and testify?
5:50 p.m.
Inspector, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
No, she did not. If you are referring to my boss, meaning Mr. Irons or above him, no, he did not ask me to come and testify.
5:50 p.m.
Bloc
André Bellavance Bloc Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
It was Mr. Irons who asked you to come and testify. Is that right?
Actually, I just want to know whether you were assured by the Agency that, regardless of what you were going to say, no retaliatory action will be taken against you.
5:50 p.m.
Inspector, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
To answer that question, yes, they did tell me there would be nothing wrong with testifying and telling the truth. I was not intimidated in any way.
5:50 p.m.
Bloc
André Bellavance Bloc Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
My questions may be a little more technical, since we're lucky enough to have some inspectors here.
Are you both meat inspectors?
