Government Operations Committee on June 22nd, 2006

[Moya Greene]

Okay.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

We heard at a previous committee meeting from the representative of CUPW an inference that Canada Post was using the rural mail interruption simply as a way to potentially cut costs and that there was a lack of communication taking place between both the union and yourself on this issue. How would you respond?

[Moya Greene]

I'm very surprised. We have had many discussions with CUPW on health and safety. I should tell you, though, that these refusals to work started in November. We hadn't had a rash of refusals to work on safety grounds until then, and then it moved all across the country. We were a little bit taken by surprise, because a number of things had changed. The safety laws had changed. The group of employees who were delivering the mail in rural Canada became members of CUPW just two and a half or three years ago. Their status had moved from an independent contractor status to an employee status. So we were surprised by the refusals to work. We had to do our own homework. We had to find out what this was about. We had to do work. We're not experts in traffic safety. We had to get experts from the National Research Council to help us understand what has changed on these routes. We had to get ergonomic experts to help us.

In fact, of all the refusals to work that we have had, three-quarters of them are on ergonomic grounds. So we've had to get expertise in to help us. We have shared all of that expertise and research with CUPW.

We are trying to manage this in an orderly way. I think a disruption in service for rural Canadians is a very inconvenient thing. It is something that I personally apologize for. So what we've been trying to do is balance the need to continue service to rural Canadians in the face of this legal refusal to work, and manage, of course, our collective bargaining relationships. We have four of them. So I'm very surprised that CUPW would say that.

My colleague Mary Traversy is the senior vice-president of employee engagement and has the labour relations portfolio under her. I know she has had regular meetings at the national and local levels with CUPW. So I guess I am surprised.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

I think everybody recognizes the changing demographics, the traffic increase flow. So there's nobody who wants to put anybody in a position of danger, and we don't want to compromise safety standards whatsoever. I think we can see an evolution of safety measures put in. The one that really did surprise me, though, was this repetitive stress injury syndrome. I had never heard of it in my life, from 30 or 40 years...and I know hundreds and hundreds of rural mail carriers. All of a sudden now we have hundreds of complaints. That one just blew me away, and quite frankly, I don't personally look kindly on that because I do think there's been an abuse there. That's just a personal opinion. I have never met any one of the complainants who have signified that this has been a problem in the past, but all of a sudden it's surfaced. I don't want to play the management versus union card here. It just seems to be such a coincidence.

Do you have any record at Canada Post of these kinds of injuries surfacing or being reported to Canada Post in the past? How many would there have been?

[Moya Greene]

We didn't keep records on this until the rural route drivers became employees. The first collective agreement applied in 2004, so these employees have been employees, for the purposes of our keeping records, for only two years.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

So you wouldn't have any manner, then, to calculate whether or not there had been previous complaints on this matter.

[Moya Greene]

That is so, Mr. Kramp. We don't know. These would have been employees of small independent contractors prior to 2004.

I must tell you, while I share your view that when you think about immediate safety you think about things that can kill you right away, I myself have had to learn about repetitive stress. We're not experts in that field. We've had to acquire expertise to help us understand it. We're still doing work in that area to let us come to some determination, as an employer, on how much repetitive stress you can absorb before you're put in a situation of risk.

I actually cannot give the honourable members of the committee an answer to that question today, but next time I appear, I will have more information on that.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

Fine.

In terms of the safety matter, whether it's a right-hand vehicle drive or anything else, are there any specific measures you could tell us about that Canada Post has taken or is contemplating to deal with the...and the removal of mailboxes, etc.? Can you give us any specifics?

[Moya Greene]

I can. Many of you, including Mr. Temelkovski and Mr. Albrecht, will know that I've been living with this issue for several months now, pretty well day and night. Let me tell you about the range of options we're looking at, because we're looking at every option right now.

When someone refuses to work, we have an immediate situation on our hands. We have to decide how we're going to get the mail to people. If I have no notice that someone is going to refuse--they show up at 8:30 in the morning and say, “We're not delivering the mail to this group of addresses today”--I can at that point choose to suspend mail delivery. Or I can choose to get the mail to some other place so that at least people can pick up their mail. It's not convenient, but I need to take a stopgap measure. Those are the only two choices I have at that instant.

I and all of the colleagues working with me on the issue then immediately go into high gear. We notify the leadership in the community, we notify the households that are affected, and we notify you as the elected representatives of the people in the area. We immediately go into high gear to try to get views from the individuals affected--i.e., “We've had to put your mail here, right now, due to a safety issue with respect to that group of stops. Can you, as Canadians, tell us what would be a reasonable alternative, a convenient but safe reasonable alternative?”

It takes us several weeks to get that information, and we do it in several ways. Sometimes we do it one on one with individual Canadians. In other cases, as some of you will know, we have had town halls--in Fredericton I had four town halls in the space of a week--to gather together Canadians' views on what is reasonable.

In addition, we look at the alleged safety hazard. Sometimes it is a road safety hazard, but in three-quarters of the cases it is an ergonomic issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you, Madam Greene.

We will go to Madam Nash.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome, Ms. Greene, to the committee. I want to congratulate you on your heading up probably one of the most successful crown corporations in Canada. I think a lot of people don't realize that it is a crown corporation that operates on a for-profit basis. It's had 11 straight years of profitability, I think you said.

[Moya Greene]

That's correct.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

I want to commend you and all of the staff and employees at Canada Post for that success story.

You've talked about operating a crown corporation that is committed to profitability, but there are some differences to being a purely commercial enterprise. Just as a broad question, can you describe for the committee, briefly, what is the overall mandate of Canada Post?

[Moya Greene]

The mandate of Canada Post is to deliver the mail to all Canadians, at a reasonable cost to Canadians, in a profitable way. That's the mandate.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Great. So wherever you live in the country, in Inuvik or Toronto, you're entitled to get your mail delivered.

[Moya Greene]

You are entitled to receive your mail.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Right.

I understand that there has been a review going on by the federal government and that the policy framework that they have put in place includes things like the price of a stamp, the targets for service, and the issue of closures of facilities. Are you expecting, as a result of this review, any dramatic changes to the framework as we know it now? When do you expect to hear the outcome of the mandate review?

[Moya Greene]

It's not really a mandate review, but a policy review.

It's a one-page document that lists the things we as a business and a service are expected to do. It lists year-over-year levels of profitability. It lists the service guarantee, how quickly we must deliver for various distances in the country. It lists the return on equity that we are expected to achieve. It's literally one page.

No, I don't expect that to change, except that the numbers will change, because every year the numbers are different, depending on what the revenue target for the company actually is.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

You've been with Canada Post, I understand, for about a year now. You were saying a year.

[Moya Greene]

Yes.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

So you've had a chance to really settle in and become comfortable with that.

I understand in your background you had worked for the airline industry. You've been involved in the deregulation of the airline industry.

[Moya Greene]

No, I never worked for the airline industry. I was a senior public servant in the Department of Transport at one point in my career.

At that point in my career, the government of the day made some very important, and I believe very positive, changes to the regulatory structure of the airline industry that would allow new entrants to come and apply and take over routes that were not very well served in the country, that would allow for more competition in the airline industry, that would allow for new segments of air traffic to grow up in the industry--for example, charter airlines to come into the business.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

So that's the whole deregulation period in the airlines.

I understand you were also involved, I guess probably through the transportation ministry, around the privatization of CN Rail.

[Moya Greene]

Yes.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

So I just want to ask you what you think about privatization and deregulation of Canada Post. Are there any changes in those areas that you're aware of that either you or the government are contemplating?