Government Operations Committee on Sept. 26th, 2006

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Is that what we are moving towards?

[Charles-Antoine St-Jean]

As I mentioned in relation to this table, it shows that there has been significant movement since 1996, notably in 2003 and subsequently. We still have some way to go, but that is the direction we would like to move in -- in other words, a single basis of accounting for both levels.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

So, a political decision will have to be made in order to complete this process?

[David Moloney]

Part of the decision is strictly within the purview of Parliament, since the nature of appropriations would be different. Of course, the government has to...

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Would it be possible to get something in writing that would assist us in preparing a motion, for example, or having legislation passed by the House of Commons that would say: “With the passage of this legislation, we are moving from the stone age to the age of enlightenment, with the implementation of accrual accounting?” That may be too much of a caricature, but is it possible, since it is used elsewhere?

[Charles-Antoine St-Jean]

The decision to adopt this method of accounting is a decision to be made by the government. There are advantages and disadvantages. My characterization of our current situation would not be that we're in the stone age -- far from it.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

That is what is suggested by the Auditor General as the approach to take, but it is not moving forward at the speed of a development that... So, it's a purely political approach.

[Charles-Antoine St-Jean]

As my college already stated, it depends on what Members of Parliament want as a system to hold the government accountable. The first time I appeared before the Public Accounts Committee, I asked the Chair if we could introduce the idea of multi-year votes, which would make things easier for us. The Chair replied that here accounts are managed on a cash basis and that votes are also prepared on a cash basis. So, I'm trying to reconcile the two.

[Sheila Fraser]

With all due respect to the representatives from government, I find it a little disingenuous to be blaming parliamentarians for not going ahead with this. The public accounts committee has recommended at least four or five times that government adopt accrual-based budgeting and appropriations. Certainly one parliamentary committee has expressed it.

I find it a bit much to think that parliamentarians are going to sit around and think about how they're going to deal with appropriations for capital assets. Surely it's the responsibility of government to make the decision on whether to go ahead. Yes, involve parliamentarians, show them the options, and get them involved, but it is really up to government to make the decision on whether this is advisable or not.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Nadeau, would it be possible for Mr. Wallace to have one minute of speaking time?

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Madam Chair, I have a whole page of questions. Can we invite them back?

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Yes.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you.

Even in the presentation it was shown that there aren't a lot of countries doing it at a national level. Some of them have backed off a bit. We have close to five accountants in front of us saying it's an accounting way--

[Sheila Fraser]

Is that good or bad?

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

There aren't that many accountants elected, and I don't know why that would be.

I have a lot of questions and I don't think it's appropriate to try to do it--

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

We'll have them back again if we can, although not this Thursday because we have to do estimates. We're going to meet with Madam Barrados next Tuesday, but we'll do it on the Thursday after that if we can.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I move to adjourn.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

I want to remind you that on Thursday we're going to vote and adopt the main estimates, so there will be no witnesses.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Will we get to discuss them?

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Yes, we will.

Would you like to say something?

[Charles-Antoine St-Jean]

I'm sorry, Madam Chair, but I have to co-chair an international committee meeting next Thursday.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Well, we'll see what we can do. However, it is important that we continue this discussion.

We'll see you on Thursday. The meeting is adjourned.