Government Operations Committee on Oct. 17th, 2006

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

The Liberal government didn't cut the health care program. They raised it by $40 billion last year, but let me--

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

You take $25 billion out over five years and put $40 billion in over ten years. That's not exactly an increase. If you don't believe me, ask Bob Rae.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Didn't you say it was ridiculous that the federal government is funding programs that challenge government legislation?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I never used the word “ridiculous”. You're making it up.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

I didn't say “ridiculous”.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

You did. You just said “ridiculous”. What do you mean, “I didn't say 'ridiculous' ”? Get Hansard. It will show you. You just said that, and I'm not going to let any more drive-by smears--

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Minister---

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Is he going to answer my questions, or what? This is ridiculous.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Okay, straight questions, no games.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

This is ridiculous. You need to answer my questions.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I did. You just didn't like them.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Did you not say that...whatever word you used to describe--

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Didn't I say “whatever”? You have to be more precise than that, sir.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

This is not theatre here. We're taking this job seriously, and I hope you are taking it seriously, Minister.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

This is not fiction either. It's not make-believe.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Didn't you say that the federal government should not be funding programs that challenge government legislation? Did you say that or not?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I said that the federal government had a responsibility to make sure that its laws, both the ones they present and those in the statute book, were constitutional and respected the charter, and we shouldn't negate our responsibilities as a government or as elected officials.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

You tell that to immigrant women in the eighties who were not eligible for English as a second language, because if it wasn't for the court challenges program, they were not eligible to receive English language training. You tell that to Sikh Canadians who are now able to take their religious traditions into schools. You tell that to Jewish families who are able now to put religious ornaments on their balconies. Those were all outcomes of the court challenges program.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

It was the Mulroney government that came forward with allowing the first Sikh in the RCMP. It was a Conservative government that gave aboriginals the right to vote. It was the Conservative government that gave women the right to vote. It was the Conservative government that did many of these things. I don't think I need a lecture on equality from a member of the Liberal Party.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

You know what, Minister, Canadians have a lot more confidence in our system than you do. Canadians know that we have a judicial branch that balances out the legislative and the executive branch. By cancelling the court challenges program, it reflects your lack of confidence in your legislation and how you conduct business, and you just want to silence the court. That is reprehensible.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you.

We will go to Mr. Wallace.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming today with your counterparts.

I'm looking forward to my eight minutes of sticking to the facts, and not the rhetoric that has been going on for the last few minutes.

I was a city councillor for the City of Burlington and Region of Halton for 13 years. Every single year I brought budget cuts to the table. Some got passed and some didn't. Can you remind us, because I like to deal with the facts, how much the government is spending in an annual year and what the actual cut is that you've proposed and that we're working on?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

It's about $200 billion, and less than half of 1%. We're increasing spending by some 5%.

We're making a choice to spend money differently. The fact that a thing was decided five, ten, or twenty years ago doesn't mean it's best for 2006.

Yes, I concede that we will do the very best job we can to meet the priorities of Canadians. Some Canadians would have us put all the money into tax cuts and make no new investments. Some Canadians would have us put all the money into new investments. And some Canadians would have us put it all to pay down the debt. We've taken a balanced approach: we're paying down debt, we're increasing investments, and we're cutting taxes. I think that's a balanced approach, which Canadians welcome.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I appreciate that. I've made a couple of calls and I've had a few calls. I had the opportunity to be on the finance committee last week for a tour out west, and of course, there were questions on those particular issues. Would you be surprised, Minister, that when I ask people if they've actually read about the cuts and why they were made and where they were made, I got very little or no response, in terms of their having actually heard it; that they'd really been relying on either press releases or press that their organizations have done?

What are you doing to communicate where those cuts are actually coming from?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We certainly did an announcement. I'm hesitant to spend millions of dollars to promote a few million dollars' worth of spending reductions. It's obviously a concern. It's a challenge in any environment to get your message out in the 500-channel universe.