Evidence of meeting #25 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was model.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
When does Parliament actually get involved in voting on the disposal of assets?
Senior Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
Well, it doesn't today. But if we're moving into a world where we are explicitly taking account of the use of assets to deliver government services, which is precisely what this is about, Parliament now actually has the option, should you want it, of giving yourself that extra degree of control. Model 4 doesn't pick that up. Model 3 does.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
We thank you very much. Now the job for our researchers and the rest of the committee is to get together on the report and make some recommendations. Hopefully they'll be good. I think you'll get a good report from the committee.
A short question, Mr. Alghabra.
Liberal
Omar Alghabra Liberal Mississauga—Erindale, ON
I just want to go on the record as saying that if we still vote $25 million and $75 million, it's not really accrual. It's still cash. Models 3 and 4 are both still talking about cash.
The way I see it is that if we want to go to accrual, we vote $100 million in the first year. If Parliament doesn't want to continue with the project, they vote minus $75 million the year after. That's how I see it. Maybe we need to attach cashflow statements with the accrual accounting if that's relevant. I see models 3 and 4 as still not fully accrual accounting.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
Thank you very much.
Let me tell you that if Parliament decides to vote down an expenditure after they've signed the contract, I hope they realize there are huge costs attached to that as well.
Liberal
Bloc
Louise Thibault Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Do you have any idea of the total...? I agree with Madame Fraser that.... I mean, I can understand that it's going to cost some money, and it's going to be recurring and all that....
Why am I speaking English? Someone is going to scold me this afternoon!
Seriously, about how much will the total cost be of implementing this improved system over five years? I am not asking you to consult a crystal ball, but I would like the Canadian public to be informed by means of our report.
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
PricewaterhouseCoopers said it would not be more than $150 million.
Bloc
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
It could be.
Bloc
Louise Thibault Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Then, can you tell us how much more, in your opinion, it is going to cost each subsequent year, depending on whether model 3 or 4 is selected? In order for it to work, we should expect there to be expenditures of a certain order, in both the central agencies and the departments, small and large, all procedures combined. Can we get a figure?
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
An order of magnitude for this.
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
As I mentioned earlier, the annual cost of the financial management of the Canadian government is on the order of some $800 to $900 million a year, or $300 million for systems and $600 million for people. Those are the current costs.
What would the marginal costs of this system be? This is hard to estimate, but there would not be a quantum leap. There might be a certain...
Bloc
Comptroller General of Canada, Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat
It would be a reasonable order of magnitude.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
The meeting was adjourned.