Government Operations Committee on Feb. 15th, 2007

[Michael Fortier]

It has been used elsewhere, although I can't tell you exactly where; perhaps the deputy can. I can tell you that the public process was very thorough. This was a joint environmental assessment with the province. Several experts came to testify, and basically compared one technology versus another.

I think the capping technology was one around which a consensus was reached by a lot of the folks involved in this process. I was there at the announcement, and people in the community were relieved that we weren't considering incineration.

This community has suffered badly over the years, as you know. They were solidly behind capping and containment, so in that sense this was a win-win for everybody. I think the governments chose the right option. It happened to be the option that the community wanted as well.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

On the procurement ombudsman in the Federal Accountability Act, what stage are we at in the appointment process? When will this office be up and running? Do you have any timelines on the implementation of it?

[Michael Fortier]

The act came into force at the end of 2006, so we are currently putting together the materials required to find that person. We're very keen to have that person on board as soon as possible.

We think there's a lot of momentum out there. There was a lot of press and media reporting about the FAA--but particularly in the supplier community about the code of procurement and the procurement ombudsman. A lot of the suppliers are looking forward to having this person within Public Works. I'm hopeful we'll have that person on board shortly.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Will that be within six months, or earlier?

[Michael Fortier]

It will be within six months, for sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you.

Madame Thibault.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to ask two questions about real property. They may be related.

With regard to your plan to sell buildings, you told us in your speech—and it was said previously—that these buildings had not been very well maintained, that they are costing us a lot of money and that, consequently, it is better to sell them.

I did not examine it in detail, but I looked at a few pages of your department's 2005-2006 performance report, and I saw that you were building new buildings. You referred in particular to one in Montreal and another in British Columbia. When I look at the cost of all these new office projects, I find it confusing. It is as if you wanted to reduce your real property holdings—which is understandable—and at the same time build new buildings to meet other needs.

Will these buildings also be sold in 10 years? What will be done to maximize the use of public funds?

[Michael Fortier]

That is an excellent question, but we have not yet made a decision. You are asking a hypothetical question about whether the government will sell one or three buildings. If that is our decision and the choice we make, we must ensure that our decision to reduce our real property holdings and concentrate on services for Canadians without necessarily owning any buildings is consistent with our decision to continue purchasing buildings. I agree with you in this regard. However, Ms. Thibault, we must be careful, because some buildings are quite unique, such as the RCMP or National Defence buildings. Even if we wanted to, for security reasons, we could never give them to a third party.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Since you are talking about security and third parties, I want to ask about our heritage and, consequently, our history across the country. You have buildings, the management of which the Auditor General referred to in her report. If I ask whether this concerns you, obviously, you will say yes, but I want to know just how much.

What is your department doing to ensure that we are not losing heritage properties so essential to our collective memory?

Second, on page 6 of your speech, you referred to the hiring of specialists and anticipated recommendations. Is this something we will be able to see one day, in part or fully? Could we have a copy of this document, or is it confidential?

[Michael Fortier]

I will start by answering the first question, with regard to heritage properties.

Obviously, the Auditor General's observations have been noted. I think the deputy minister could also tell you that our goal is to do better. You know, the problem is the same. Be they heritage or other buildings, the funding sources are the same. This illustrates the challenge this government faces with regard to updating and maintaining these buildings. You will surely say that heritage buildings deserve to be at the top of the list, but clearly we must address this problem, and we will.

As for the report we will get from real property experts, I think it is confidential, but I don't really know. I will let someone else tell you whether it is confidential or not.

[David Marshall]

Yes, we would certainly be prepared to release anything that is normally released under the Access to Information Act, if that's needed.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

With regard to greening, I saw that GHG reduction targets were to be set. Will you really do this, so as to make these buildings greener and as environmentally friendly as possible?

[Michael Fortier]

We are dealing with a vast network of suppliers. Our job is to ensure that each contract with a supplier specifies that the goods provided must be as environmentally friendly as possible. I think that this is the goal we should set ourselves. This is happening. I know we are not perfect and that we are not yet where we want to be, but I can tell you that we are much further ahead than last April.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you.

Ms. Nash.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to go back to the purchase of the buildings and the concern about heritage buildings. The former chief architect of the National Capital Commission publicly expressed a concern about areas of national interest, such as Wellington Street east of Lebreton Flats, and the whole of Sussex Street, saying that these areas should not be sold, and that if we're thinking of disposing of any buildings there, the government should stop.

Are there any heritage buildings among the 40 that you're considering as part of this package?

[Michael Fortier]

I'll ask the deputy.

The answer is no.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

No. I'm an MP from Toronto. Can we know which buildings you are considering in Toronto?

[Michael Fortier]

You can get the list of the Toronto buildings. The list is on the website. Out of the 40, I think there are a few. I think they're all in the downtown core. I don't think there's anything there that you would consider to be.... I'll let you decide, because maybe your definition is larger than mine.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Okay, we'll take a look at those.

So your understanding of it is that none of the 40 buildings would be considered of historical significance or a heritage building?

[Michael Fortier]

Among the 40, I believe none would be considered to be in that category.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Okay.

You talk about a green procurement plan, or a green policy for procurement. The Government of Canada has many buildings across the country, so outside of procurement, what is our strategy for better energy efficiency for the real estate that Canada has? What's our plan, and do we have targets and timetables associated with that?

[Michael Fortier]

As I said earlier, when we embark on significant real estate upkeep, we have a policy going forward that we will try to achieve a LEED gold standard in the renovation. So if you're just replacing an elevator as opposed to doing something far more significant, obviously you can see the difference. We're very committed, with respect to the money that we're going to be spending on those buildings, that it be spent in a way that is very friendly to the environment. Obviously, as I said, if we're going to do something significant, we're going to make sure that we meet those standards. We did that with Burrard, we did that with Bel-Air in Montreal, and we'll continue doing it.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

The question I didn't get an answer to the last time was whether or not there was any kind of ongoing maintenance or contingency plan over the previous decades that kept the government's real estate renovated in good order, and whether this is something you're going to be addressing.

[Michael Fortier]

Could you repeat the question? I'm not sure I understand it.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

You expressed a concern that there was a problem with lack of upkeep of federal properties. Was there not a sufficient maintenance fund or ongoing upkeep fund to deal with the properties the government is responsible for, and is that something you're going to be addressing?