Government Operations Committee on Feb. 27th, 2007

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I'm actually very supportive, but it sounds very airy-fairy to me. I'd like to see some hard numbers: what the benefits are, what the costs are.

We have 45,000 buildings in our inventory. Have there been any specific initiatives that we expect under this initiative? There will be regulations or some sort of orders, but through those, in the buildings we will hold the temperatures....

For instance, I feel pretty hot right now. Are there any particular initiatives right now to say that this is the temperature we'll keep our buildings at; that in the evenings we'll be decreasing the temperatures in the buildings, or at the time when breaks take place, or summer holidays, or that sort of thing? Do we have that sort of detail in any of these programs?

[Margaret Kenny]

We don't have an actual program per se to address it. Certainly we have standard operating procedures for the buildings. Last summer as well as the summer before, through Treasury Board Secretariat as well as Public Works, we issued to our building managers requirements to lower the energy use in the buildings by letting the temperatures go up. But there's not a law or regulation per se.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

You said that initiative came out of Treasury Board. What temperature are we supposed to set the thermostats at in our government buildings? Can you tell me?

[Margaret Kenny]

I'm sure there are people here who—

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I think we are at around 72 or 73 degrees right now here.

[A voice]

Yes.

[Margaret Kenny]

There are people within the audience here who can tell us.

Anne.

[Anne Auger]

I can try to answer. I think there are regulations; all those parameters are governed by some regulations, so there is a range in which we can play. But I don't have this information. We can provide you with it, I suppose.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Frankly, I'm pretty astounded that the officials in charge of this greening initiative, with simple questions like that, wouldn't be able to provide me with an answer. But I'm more worried that we're starting in on initiatives—which I support—without having any concrete numbers. There could be initiatives that actually have a greater cost than the benefit that will be produced in terms of tonnage of pollutants, and perhaps efforts would be better placed elsewhere.

So you haven't prioritized any of this either.

[Margaret Kenny]

The priorities we have set for green government operations are reflected in sustainable development strategies, and they were and are building energy; green procurement, where decisions are made commodity by commodity, taking into consideration just the kinds of things you've been talking about; and vehicles, recognizing that there is an important leadership issue here as well.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I have a final question. We have a lot of properties that require lawn care, etc. Is there any initiative involving pesticide use and that sort of thing?

[Margaret Kenny]

I'll speak for Public Works on this, and maybe Environment Canada can add to it.

We have in our sustainable development strategies a commitment to use integrated pest management and to reduce the amount of pesticide we're using in our buildings and in the management of our facilities.

[Berny Latreille]

Indeed, standards have been produced around how to develop an integrated pest management program for federal properties—or others, for the tools are available to others—and these have been shared with all federal departments.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I know that a number of our larger municipal governments have actually been quite proactive. You talked about looking at other jurisdictions. Are there any results that you've looked at?

For instance, I believe Kitchener-Waterloo also banned pesticide use.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

For July and August.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

The City of Toronto is looking at it as well—

[A voice]

It's banned in Toronto.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

—or has banned it. Have you looked at any of those, and have any recommendations been made?

[Margaret Kenny]

There has been a working group looking at pesticide use in general. They have been looking at minimizing the use of any kind of pesticide as far as possible and relying more on integrated approaches, where you're taking action to prevent pests, etc.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

You haven't answered whether they have looked at other jurisdictions that have actually banned the use of pesticides, such as the City of Toronto, and have done some sort of analysis. Can that sort of outright ban be applied?

[Margaret Kenny]

I'm not aware that the City of Toronto has banned the use of all pesticides within all of their buildings per se.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Moore.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Can you tell us about the building in Montreal and its success? The questions that were raised about technology were a bit about windows, and Ray brought up the issue about the fleet.

Tell us about the building in Montreal and the reforms that were put in place there. How can those things be copied, not only in government buildings but in the private sector? I know there's a lot of interesting technology there.

[Margaret Kenny]

The building in Montreal, which is at 740 Bel-Air Avenue, is an example of some of the newer buildings coming on stream that are employing a lot of interesting technology.

In that particular building, there is a green roof, which means that we have the ability to collect rainwater to be used for irrigating the landscape and also for some non-potable water uses, such as flushing and so on. Also quite a number of geothermal wells were used for the heating and cooling system. Shading was used on that building, so that it doesn't rely on as much energy as other buildings might. The operational cost of that building has actually been reduced by 30%, meaning there's a savings of about $200,000 a year in energy.

That's just one example. In fact there are new buildings coming up all over the place where some very innovative technologies are being employed.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

What's being done to take that technology and demonstrate it or market it in some ways to the private sector?