Government Operations Committee on Feb. 27th, 2007

[Margaret Kenny]

Interestingly, concerning these Government of Canada buildings, I'm thinking of one in Yellowknife that has a very large photovoltaic curtain that at peak produces about 14% of the building's energy. We worked with industry partners to put that technology in, and the Yellowknife building was a demonstration project with Natural Resources Canada.

From there, you're working with industry to put it in place, and then the results are made available to industry for further use.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

What was this year's budget for the office of greening government?

[Margaret Kenny]

For the Office of Greening Government Operations...?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I know the answer.

[Margaret Kenny]

Do you?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Yes. The committee should know, though. I want to let the committee know how it's been ramped up since it was first put in place, and what your needs are.

That's where I'm going, but you can go ahead and launch.

[Margaret Kenny]

It's all very complicated, but I would say that all in all there is probably about $5.5 million being put into the office.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

You mentioned Manitoba. Some provinces do it through their version of public works, while some do it through their environment ministries and different offices. What provinces are doing this and leading the way, and which ones don't make this initiative at all?

[Margaret Kenny]

The meeting we had this year with the provinces would suggest to me that every province is pretty much taking steps here.

British Columbia is very good, and they have a lot of talent. Maybe it's the climate that promotes a lot of energy in the green building area, but they're certainly leaders.

Ontario is certainly leading with on-site energy generation, for example. That is quite exciting as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Simard.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

I have a few questions. As a matter of fact, James mentioned Manitoba. I know that the new Manitoba Hydro building in Winnipeg that's being built right now will be, if not the most energy efficient in the world, one of the most energy efficient. So we are leading by example.

That brings me to the provinces, I think we all realize that the environment is probably the number one issue with Canadians right now, and they expect us to use our leverage wherever we can. One of the questions I'd like to ask is, have we considered at one point including clauses in our contracts with the government, in our agreements with other levels of government, to ensure that they follow certain green rules as well? It's going one step further than just the departments, but have we thought of that already?

[Margaret Kenny]

I'm sorry, if I could just have a little clarification on the—

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Sure. In a lot of our agreements with the provinces we have clauses--for instance, linguistic clauses--where a certain percentage goes towards minority language communities. Could there be incorporated in our agreements with the provinces certain clauses where they have to respect certain green initiatives? It seems to me that if we're going to fund certain things, there are a lot of transfers happening between the federal government and provincial governments, or even private-public partnerships for instance, where we should maybe have clauses incorporated in our agreements.

Is that something we're considering?

[Margaret Kenny]

It isn't something that my office has pursued per se. I agree that it's very interesting.

I'm not sure if anyone else at the table has an idea.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

You will just consider it?

My second question, just quickly, is with regard to my colleagues' comments on measuring results. I think we're expected to lead by example, and one of my colleagues, Mr. Albrecht, and I were talking about that before the committee meeting. It's important for us to set the example. But if we're not measuring the outcomes properly, if we don't know what our costs are and we don't know what the benefits are, it's going to be very difficult for us to convince the private sector that we're doing well, that it's worthwhile getting on board with some of these initiatives. I would encourage the department or your organization to really look at that very seriously.

[Margaret Kenny]

Agreed.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

I'll be brief.

I'm from a mining community, and energy is very expensive there, so we went through this years ago. As a matter of fact, you mentioned changing light bulbs in your office. We did that at the school board 25 years ago when I was a school trustee. I'm starting to suspect that the federal government is lagging behind.

But in the mining sector, the best suggestions and the best solutions were provided by employees through a suggestion plan. As a matter of fact, we're into robotic mining, and it comes from labourers who have invented these things.

Do you have a suggestion program for your employees, or do you depend on committees of either skilled or unskilled people?

[Margaret Kenny]

I agree with you about where some of the most interesting ideas come from. Our deputy has a system where people send him ideas, and I must say people don't seem to be shy about sending me ideas either. With e-mail it's so easy in our department. We don't have a formal suggestion box other than the website, but I think that is a very good idea.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

The mining companies pay the employees for these suggestions. They calculate the savings and they give them a percentage. That's a good incentive, and you're—

[Margaret Kenny]

That won't happen.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

It's just an idea for you.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

I think that's where the true specialists are. Ten per cent of a dollar is only a dime.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

The Canadian government owns approximately 45,000 properties. Amongst those, do you have any buildings that have been classified as green, whether that be through solar energy or otherwise, like the Bel-Air building in Montreal, for example? Do you have an inventory of that type of building? Do you see us going in that direction?

The reason I ask the question is that the government, like the previous government, is talking about selling buildings in order to rent buildings in the private sector. If that happens, will the buildings that are being rented have to be green buildings? Is this a short-term policy rather than long-term planning?