Government Operations Committee on May 16th, 2006

[Gwyn Morgan]

Not only after the fact, but actually in our guidelines we'll try to put something together. I would envision, at least I would recommend, and I hope the rest of the commission would agree, that there would be a recommendation that government constantly review the process from the point of view of the mosaic, including French-speaking people, of course. There are already jobs that are defined as bilingual, and so on, but those criteria will be set by the ministries and by the agencies. What we will do is try to encourage an overall global approach so at the end of the day they can come forward and say, look, we have struck a balance, and we'll be keeping an eye on that.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

So it'll be after the fact.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Wallace.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Mr. Morgan, for being here today.

I'm also fairly new to this process. I clearly understand that the commission is about process and not about people and individual resumés and who gets appointed to where. It's about how that process works to make sure we do have the balance you're talking about. I was wondering if you, based on your business experience, can give us some examples of the kinds of guidelines or evaluation criteria that you foresee. I know you're only one person and it's a commission decision plus staff, but at this point, what kinds of things, tangible ones, are we talking about in terms of evaluation criteria on what makes a good process, and what will make a good document of code of ethics and principles?

[Gwyn Morgan]

First of all, as some of the other members have alluded to, it starts with, Madam Chair, a good set of really clear job descriptions. We won't set the description, but there has to be a really clear job description. Especially for any kind of important positions, more senior positions, it would be very important that they be widely advertised, and not just in the Canada Gazette. Transparency is very important.

We would expect that when a given board of, say, one of the crown corporations--this is just an example--comes forward with a set of names for a minister's decision, after going through a large process, and following the process, there would actually be a name selected from that list, rather than somebody plunked in by the minister himself based upon some other criteria. That has happened; I've had reports of this in recent times.

I think those are the kinds of things we'll look at, in addition to the other encouragements we give on things like gender, ethnic, regional, and linguistic balance.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I have a visionary question for you. People have described you as having great vision on things. You won't be the Commissioner of Public Appointments forever. At the end of the day, what's your long-term vision of the commission, and what would it take for you to look back and say, we were successful, we accomplished something? What is your thinking on that in terms of how you'd like the commission viewed by the public?

[Gwyn Morgan]

Madam Chair, the member is right; I don't expect to be doing this job forever. In fact, my commitment to the Prime Minister is that I'll do it as long as is required to make sure the system is up and operating well and that we've got some of the cultural change, some of the procedural change, and demonstrated effectiveness in place. That's why I'm offering my experience and background, because it's directly related to doing those things.

When I look back, what I would like to look back on, if I'm appointed to this role, is that the commission was viewed by all members of the House and Canadians in general as being a step forward, that it gave them more confidence, not only from the point of view of whether the right person or the best person was selected, but that the process that was followed was a fair and open one and that the effectiveness was truly embraced by everyone. I think that if we can do that, then we will have accomplished what I said in my opening remarks, and that is to try to lift the process of public appointments in this country to be respected around the world as being the best there is. That's our objective and that's what we'll work towards.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Bonin.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome, Mr. Morgan. Thank you very much for your participation. I would suggest that you not spend your dollar all in the same place. I'm sure Revenue Canada is looking for ways of taxing that already.

We've heard many representations to ensure participation from minority groups, be it immigrants or linguistic. There is a group that is always forgotten and is always under-represented, and that's rural Canada. The proof of that is the appointment of your commission: four multimillionaires from Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal. I don't object to multimillionaires. They contribute, and I'd like to be one of them myself. But the Prime Minister has another appointment to make. I would hope that my colleagues would recommend someone from rural Canada.

I'm coming back to process. If your process cannot identify a way of ensuring that we will correct under-representation, what will change with your commission? The question has been put to you about different minority groups, or under-represented groups, and I am asking it about rural Canada because it's definitely clearly under-represented. As I said before, if you cannot recommend a process that will force the PMO to ensure proper representation, what does your commission change about the whole thing?

[Gwyn Morgan]

Madam Chair, that is a very interesting question. It especially hits home, given my origins as a farm boy who thought that people in the city never really cared about us anyway. Now I'm one of them, unfortunately.

I think it's a very interesting point, not only with regard to the makeup of the commission so far, but the whole issue of rural Canada and how we can better represent their interests. Again, given that we will not be selecting appointees, all we can do is encourage in our guidelines more diversity, including, now that you've mentioned it--I wouldn't have thought about it--the idea of rural and urban balance.

Many of the rural communities of Canada are dying. It's of great concern, and I'm even looking at my own hometown. It's a way of life that needs to be preserved. It's a thing we have to think a lot more about.

It's another thing I've given speeches about, by the way. It seems there are a lot of things. I think your point is very well taken.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

I will go to Mr. Kenney.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

By the way, what is your hometown in Alberta, Mr. Morgan?

[Gwyn Morgan]

No one would recognize it. It's called Carstairs.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

So you are from rural Canada originally.

[Gwyn Morgan]

Yes, definitely.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Like a lot of us who end up moving into the cities. Mr. Morgan, much has been made of this section of the speech that you gave last year at a Fraser Forum event. I have a copy of a letter that you wrote to the editor of the Calgary Herald just shortly after that speech in which you said, and I quote:

Unfortunately, some felt I was negatively portraying ethnic groups. I regret creating this impression. My speech clearly stated our country needs a strong immigration program, and that colour, race or religion have no place in the selection process.

Does that sound like something you wrote to the Calgary Herald and what prompted you to do so quickly?

[Gwyn Morgan]

The reason was that there were local media reports that caused me some concern. One of the national newspapers actually published excerpts from the speech without the full text. So I was very concerned about that. I was also, quite frankly, as I've said earlier, looking at the words again, thinking that these could have been better chosen to really reflect my views, and I regret that.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Sir, you have heard here this morning some pretty colourful characterizations of your views on questions related to multiculturalism and immigration. Have you ever been accused of holding unacceptable views, to your knowledge, by anybody?

[Gwyn Morgan]

No.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

So this is a new development for you?

[Gwyn Morgan]

Well, it's sad for me and for my family. I realize this is some of my own doing, but it's sad because what we really believe is so different from that. I was trying to point out that Canadians need to talk about problems and need to talk about issues, and there was nothing racist about it. It was all about behaviour. I believe no matter what your origin, what your colour, if you're behaving badly, we need to talk about it. What I was saying was that the immigrant screening process could be improved to try to make sure as much as possible that we bring in Canadians who can contribute.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

But the negative attribution of motives is something you found disturbing?

[Gwyn Morgan]

Very disturbing.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Do you mind if I ask your age, Mr. Morgan?

[Gwyn Morgan]

I think I mentioned in the opening comments that half of my 60 years was building EnCana.