Government Operations Committee on May 16th, 2006

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

There's only one good thing about chairing a meeting such as this, and it's that I get the last word.

I will say to you, sir, that if you are confirmed in this position, I would hope that you will have taken to heart what you've listened to and responded to here.

I happen to know that you sit on many boards across the country, and I've been on this committee for some time. I would hope that your guidelines would try to expand on what happens in the private sector.

I know that a lot of those boards in the private sector have the same white gentlemen of a certain age. Because this is a country, I hope your guidelines will reflect the diversity of this country and will try to break the glass ceiling that so many people can't seem to break, not because they don't merit it and not because they can't do the job. It's about ensuring that these people have a chance and that you have a policy of integration.

I wish you well if you are confirmed.

I thank you very much.

[Gwyn Morgan]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you very much, Mr. Morgan.

We have very little time left. We could go to motions or we could agree to deal with them on Thursday. Would you like to deal with them now?

I will interrupt for a minute, but I think there is another committee coming in after this one, so we may not have much time.

Madame Thibault has agreed that her motion can wait until next Thursday, but I believe we have another motion that Madame Nash put forward.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Yes, Madam Chair, I gave notice of the motion last week. I would like to make some minor changes or minor amendments to the motion, if that's possible at this time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

You've given notice of a particular motion. We would have to have the agreement of the committee that you could amend this. Let's see what the amendment is.

You're amending your own motion is what you're doing.

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Right, so it's a friendly amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

It would have to be by someone else, honestly; otherwise, you have to give notice of that, as well.

Madame Thibault.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I suggest a friendly amendment to the motion introduced by Ms....

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Ms. Thibault, first she should start by moving her motion, and then you could move an amendment to it.

Would you make your proposal?

[Peggy Nash, NDP, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Yes, I'd like to move the motion that I gave notice of last week.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you.

Is there a seconder? Any seconder?

Yes, Madame Thibault.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I would like to move that in the English version, after the word “Morgan”, the words

“has insufficient qualifications and competence related to...”

be replaced by

“is unsuitable for....”

Everything else remains unchanged. Is that what you wanted, Madam?

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Okay. You're only changing that word.

Ms. Thibault, you're only changing that word?

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

That is correct. We are replacing the words between “Morgan” and “to”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Do we wish to debate this amendment?

(Amendment agreed to)

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Now I will ask for all those in favour of the motion as amended.

Would you like debate? Certainly.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I will begin then, I guess.

I think there are a couple of things here that are quite telling. First of all, Ms. Nash moved this motion on Friday without ever having met Mr. Morgan, never having had the opportunity to actually have him appear before this committee.

[Diane Ablonczy, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Without due process.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Precisely, as Madam Ablonczy just said, without full due process.

Second of all, I think it's quite telling, the amendment that was just approved here by the opposition parties, and it's important to make note of it. What the opposition just did--the Liberals and the NDP with the Bloc--is strike the words “insufficient qualifications and competence related to the proposed appointment”. The original motion said, “That, due to the fact that Mr. Gwyn Morgan has insufficient qualifications and competence related to the proposed appointment as Chairperson”, he should not be appointed.

So they have conceded, in fact, that he does have sufficient qualifications, that he does have sufficient competence. But they're deciding that he's unsuitable clearly based on the questions that were raised here, clearly because of his personal and political views, views that have no relevance whatsoever to the position to which he is going to be appointed. This is pure partisanship. It's totally irresponsible, and the fact that you've just conceded the fact that he's qualified for this position makes this position that you are now taking irresponsible and partisan and precisely what Canadians are tired of in parliamentary committees.

Mr. Morgan is qualified for this position. He should be appointed, and this kind of reckless partisanship, started by the NDP and now supported, apparently, by the Liberals, is totally irresponsible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Volpe.

[Joe Volpe, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Once Mr. Moore gets off his high horse, he'll recall that Mr. Morgan was unable--note the word “unable”--to address any question related to competence and knowledge of an appointments process. Nor was he capable of offering any systematic procedural approach to what he thinks he should be doing. And thirdly, he was unaware of the competence associated with any merit-based system.

So I think that Madam Nash, who decided not to call into question any other perceived notions about his abilities in the private sector, noted that the commentary around the table, reinforced by Mr. Moore and his colleagues, was that he is really quite unsuitable for making decisions and observations, let alone that he doesn't have the qualifications and competence for the procedure that he has yet to define.

I think that Madam Nash has actually done Mr. Morgan a favour by referring to his suitability and not his competence. That's not partisanship. I think that's a certain elegance and compassion on her part.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Alghabra.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I think if there's any partisanship here today, it's on the opposite side. It's members of the Conservative Party, some of whom, I'm sure, are as uncomfortable as we are about some of the statements and views we've discussed today. Yet they are unwilling to support this motion. I challenge any member of the Conservative Party to defend the statements that were made by Mr. Morgan and tell us how they're not going to be influencing his decisions when and if he's ever confirmed as Public Appointments Commissioner.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Kenney.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'll just point out, to begin with, that Mr. Alghabra and Mr. Volpe seem to be contradicting each other. Mr. Volpe seems to suggest that Mr. Morgan is unsuitable for the position because the position itself has not been sufficiently defined; and Mr. Alghabra, on the other hand, seems to believe he's unsuitable because of a few lines in one speech he's given in a 40-year career and a 60-year life, much of it in the public eye.

Believe me, Madam Chair, I understand, as somebody who has been in opposition here for nine years, the duty of the opposition, the responsibility of the opposition to oppose, to be critical, to ask tough questions, and not to give the government or anybody proposed by the government an easy ride. I understand that. I understand the context, and I respect the obligation of opposition members to do that. I do, however, think it has to be done in a way that doesn't do permanent damage to our public institutions.

I'll admit that as a member of the opposition in the past, mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa, I've been too aggressive on occasion, but I hope I never would have taken somebody with the status of the leading business person in Canada--