Okay.
Evidence of meeting #42 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was numbers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #42 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was numbers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:50 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
Can I answer your question about language?
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Yes. I'll just state that I've seen that the statistics demonstrate that there has been a decrease in the failure rate among anglophones taking the French oral exam. Am I correct in that?
4:50 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
There has been an increase in their success, yes.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Okay. Could you explain that? Was I wrong to say...? They might not be the same thing--a decrease in failure is not always an increase in success.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Okay.
Before, one of the problems was that sometimes they were taking the exam five and six times.
4:50 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
They still are. We had quite a drop.
For the benefit of the other members, it was an oral interaction test. We test reading and writing and oral interaction--speaking. It's the speaking that tends to be the most difficult for people.
4:50 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
Not yet. We are changing it.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
So what's responsible for the improvements we've seen?
4:50 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
We did a lot of things on the exam in terms of getting people ready, explaining what the levels were for them, and trying to make sure that everyone understood the exam process. We made changes so you could have a conversation, in whichever language you wanted, about how the exam was going to go. We made sure that people who knew the work in the department were there to do the test, because the test is about your work--your ability to function--not about social activities. So we saw that. Also, I think some people who decided they weren't going to make it stopped trying. Some of that must have happened.
In addition to that, what we are doing is changing the test, because the test has been around for a long time. But that's going to be next year. We've made all those changes around the test, but the test is the same. The standard is not going to change, but we are going to the common European framework.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
It is the framework that's been developed among the linguists in Europe, and they characterize language in a number of dimensions. They are generic dimensions in language. So we are going to design the test around those dimensions of language.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Louise Thibault Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Mr. Chairman was right to cut me off earlier since my time had elapsed. I'm nevertheless going to ask the question I wanted to ask you. It concerns the attached document that you distributed to us.
That document states that, for a given period, in the core public administration, there were more women than men. It further states, however, that between 1995 and 1997, more men than women left, but that the trend subsequently reversed starting in 1998. Consequently, more women left.
Are any significant trends emerging? Are these mainly personal situations? Did these women seek and obtain positions in the private sector? Do we know the reasons for their departure?
4:50 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
Statistics Canada's analysis showed that women tended to retire earlier than men, with fewer yeas of service. It appears that that decision is based on late entry into the labour market and other personal reasons, such as taking breaks during the period of employment.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Louise Thibault Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
Values or family situation may be involved, as well as the consideration that one does not need to accumulate more years of service.
The other factor concerns scientists. You referred to the need for rigorous planning. All positions are important; I don't mean that entry positions are less important than scientific positions. However, the fact is that the hiring of a museum curator, whether it be a man or a woman, calls for a special profile.
As a result of government decisions, 15,000 positions were abolished between 1990 and 1996. An institutional or corporate memory was lost. We lost technicians; there was no longer anyone to repair the muskets, paintings and so on. I'm talking about the field of the arts, but there were other things as well.
The chart on page 2 of the English document shows a disturbing curve regarding the scientific community. Have I correctly interpreted that chart? The second last item is the “scientific and professional (economics, sociology and statistics)” category. Is that disturbing, or do you think the situation will correct itself through planning?
4:55 p.m.
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
It should be emphasized that the members of that group tend to stay in their positions longer after their retirement eligibility date.
March 22nd, 2007 / 4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Louise Thibault Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC
They very often love what they do. I remember that, at Health and Welfare, we couldn't get them out of the labs, at the time they were there.
My last question concerns the note at the bottom of Attachment 4 which begins as follows: “Recruitment programs generate a lot of interest...” You said that didn't appear to encourage managers to recruit these people.
Is that because they absolutely want to make their own efforts? I don't mean they do it systematically, and I'm not saying that in a negative way, but are you observing that they want to hire someone they know rather than someone who is more qualified, based on the merit principle? These people and these programs don't exist for no purpose.
