With regard to backdoor opportunities, they have a lot of people coming in as casuals and terms who then end up in some pools, but not as indeterminate employees. Then 65% of the staff in indeterminate positions come from those pools. But in fact if you open up the employment opportunities to everybody at the same time, you have a larger group of talent applying for the jobs.
What we say in the brief also is that with regard to the numbers of people from various equity groups applying for jobs, the numbers are there, but the reality is that it doesn't show them being employed at the end of the day. There's a disconnect between trying to achieve the goals of employment equity in particular in a racialized community and what we actually see.