Evidence of meeting #46 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was spending.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
Certainly, I would think literacy is part of education. That's how I've always classified it.
NDP
Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON
We're talking about people who are functionally illiterate, not people who are going to university.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
I agree. With the social transfer to the provinces, the provinces then have the right to use those increased funds for literacy training, which are exactly the educational needs that illiterate or semi-literate people would access through the provinces, as you can appreciate.
No, wait, let me just finish.
NDP
Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON
So that I understand, Mr. Minister, you're saying that literacy funding is cut federally by several million, but it's bundled into whatever money goes to the provinces, and let the provinces spend it on literacy, child care, or whatever they want to spend it on. Is that your point?
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
For example, if you look at Manitoba, of the $3.1 billion, $1.8 billion was equalization. There was $800 million in the social transfer.
Conservative
NDP
Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON
So the federal government is getting out of literacy funding. Is that—?
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
No, obviously not. We put money toward education. The responsibility of the federal government is to ensure that there are comparable levels of service across this country, by providing appropriate dollars to provide those services. It's not for the federal government to dictate to the provinces, for example, to tell Quebec how to conduct its provincial responsibilities in education. For me, that would not be consistent with our Constitution, and how it's divided.
NDP
Peggy Nash NDP Parkdale—High Park, ON
Mr. Minister, on page 14-9, there is a cut of about $6.5 million for literacy. Are we nationally now spending less money on literacy from the federal government? Or is there some other place that the money is—
Conservative
Conservative
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Thank you Madam Chair. It's a privilege to finally have a chance to ask a question.
I want to thank our witnesses for being here, especially Minister Toews. It's good to have you here.
I'm thrilled to see in your remarks—and also in practice—that you believe that one of the cornerstones for accountability is responsible spending. I think that's true whether it's related to the cyclical review of programming, as you've indicated; whether it's a move to accrual accounting, in both budgeting and reporting; or as in budget 2007, whether it's just listening to the priorities of ordinary Canadians. I think the budget did that. We see this clearly in the commitment to expenses in health care, addressing the fiscal balance question, and expenditures for families.
But I want to go back to the question of literacy for a moment. I wasn't planning to address that, but let me just point out some of the value of creating the cyclical review.
I just happen to have with me the cuts that were made to literacy. Contracts for websites were cut by $81,000, $45,000, $71,000, and $70,000—that money never was spent directly on literacy. Promotions for meetings were cut by $53,000, and $220,000 was cut to promote a meeting promoting literacy. Contracts for consultants were cut by $57,000, paid to a media consultant for working for 31 days.
This illustrates, Madam Chair, the need for the constant cyclical review of these programs, so that we don't get involved in expenditures, which we lose track of.
I could go on; there are all kinds of others there.
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
You would need to go no further than the NDP Premier of Manitoba, who basically praised our budget. I can tell you that if we had cut those kinds of programs, he would have let us know.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
One of the questions that my constituents and I think a lot of Canadians often ask—and it may or may not be valid—concerns the increasing number of employees within the government sector. I wonder if you have any projections in terms of the growth of full-time employees within the Treasury Board? That may be an unfair question that puts you on the spot, but it would help me to know. Are we also controlling that element of our growth?
President, Public Service Human Resources Management Agency of Canada
I'm assuming you mean in the entire public service.
Conservative
President, Public Service Human Resources Management Agency of Canada
Over the last five years, there has been an increase of a little over 4% per year, almost all of which was directly related to more spending in the area of security, public safety, health, and on some additional RCMP forces—generally on the protection of Canadians.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
In terms of the budgeted amount for public debt, the amount is still increasing. I know that we were pretty committed to reducing the debt, by I believe it was $22 billion over the last two budgets. If I read the footnote correctly, the reason for the very small projected increase—0.9%, I believe—is due to a projected increase in interest costs.
Could you or one of your officials address this?
Conservative
Vic Toews Conservative Provencher, MB
It is really a Department of Finance question. Perhaps Mr. Moloney can give us some direction in that regard.
Senior Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat
The information that we present to Parliament in the main estimates for all of the statutory programs, including the public debt program, is information we get from the Department of Finance. So the statement there is reflected again in the most recent budget, which does show, in terms of the private sector forecast for the economy, a small uptake in interest rates this year. And even though there is a smaller debt stock, there's a slightly higher interest rate.
