Government Operations Committee on June 6th, 2006

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

I heard that.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Bonin.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

We're at five minutes now.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mrs. Bourque and Mr. Bickerton, I thank you for your presence this morning.

I would like to come back to the matter of the postal service in rural areas. That situation has happened in my riding. The day the complaint is lodged, mail delivery stops. There's a reason to that. One could claim that the situation is dangerous today, that a solution will be found and that mail will stop being delivered a month from now. It it's dangerous, it has to stop immediately.

This has happened in my riding and, since there are 52 communities, it will certainly happen again somewhere else.

The problem is only starting across the country. I had one situation, and I have 52 communities.

I have two questions. One of them is, what is the process for logging a complaint? It's not even a complaint, it's a statement that they will not deliver because it's dangerous, and then the employer has no choice but to cut deliveries. Canada Post knows, and the union knows, that my other 51 communities are going to have the same problem. I'd like to know--and I will ask the same question of management, so in all fairness I'm telling you that now--what efforts are being made to prevent that problem, because every time there's a problem, the people around this table are the ones who get the calls.

When the situation arose in my riding, it wasn't Canada Post's problem. Their solution was: “Make a choice. You go to the post office or you have community mailboxes.” That's their policy, and it is an alternative. The union position is that they don't deliver because it's dangerous. What real honest effort has been made by the employer, and by the union, to attempt to prevent this problem spreading across the country? Because we know it will.

[Deborah Bourque]

In terms of the process, the right to refuse unsafe work under the Canada Labour Code is an individual right; it's not a collective right.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

It's not the individuals who said they were not delivering; it's the union who said that.

[Deborah Bourque]

No, sorry, that's incorrect.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

You'd better talk to your local representatives.

[Deborah Bourque]

We've always been clear with our members that they have rights under the Canada Labour Code and that they are not expected to put their health and safety at risk. Any union will tell their members, “You protect yourself. You have rights”--

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

That's not my question.

What is the process? Does the individual go directly to Labour Canada, or does he do it through the union?

[Deborah Bourque]

They first go to their supervisor.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Which is the employer.

[Deborah Bourque]

Yes, the employer. They go to the supervisor, and I guess it's the supervisor who brings in Labour Canada. If Labour Canada comes in and says this is unsafe, the employee has the right to refuse to do that work. Or they say it's safe and go back and do the job.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Okay. So the union is not involved in that process?

[Deborah Bourque]

Not unless the member decides they want to take a union representative with them for their protection when they speak with management. That's where the union would get involved, but it's the individual who invokes the right to refuse.

I want to talk to you a bit about how we would see this happening in the future.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

We have five minutes, and I'm really interested in the attempts to prevent the problems.

[Deborah Bourque]

Okay. That's what I'm going to talk to you about.

What we'd like to see is the involvement of the local joint health and safety committees that are structured under the Canada Labour Code. They're in every workplace and they're accessible in those workplaces. We would like to see those local joint health and safety committees review the routes to identify the problem spots. As I think I said earlier, not every household on the route is dangerous to deliver to; frequently, it's only a small number of them.

The local committees need to consult with the households that have been identified as problems and develop solutions on a case-by-case basis. There's no blanket one-size-fits-all solution to this problem. Then, when an RSMC exercises his or her right to refuse, Canada Post needs to cease its practice of having all the mail on the route relocated. It's not necessary. We would argue that the committee--

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

That's interesting, but it's not what I'm concerned about.

I would like to hear what attempts you have made with the employer to prevent these problems. Then I want to go to the employer and say, “The union offered you a way to prevent these problems. Why do you not listen to them?”

[Deborah Bourque]

And that's what we're doing.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

No, you're telling me what you'd like to see.

[Deborah Bourque]

We want the local joint health and safety committees involved.

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

I just want to know what attempts you've made with the employer.

[Deborah Bourque]

Our health and safety department has been working with Canada Post ever since this problem surfaced. Three of our representatives spent two weeks in Fredericton driving around and looking at every route, because Canada Post pulled mail delivery from 1,100 households last week. We had them drive around and look at every one of those delivery points on those routes.

We're involved in some discussion around an ergonomic study that was done by the National Research Council. We're trying to work out a process right now and reach agreement with Canada Post. We agree that there needs to be....

If by preventing the problem you mean stopping the complaints—