Government Operations Committee on June 6th, 2006

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

No, what I mean is...I'll make something up. You are the president and say to me, “I sat with the director of Canada Post and offered that we work together to prevent this”. Then I'd like to say to them, “Why in hell won't you sit with the union and solve the problem?”

I want to know what real attempts have been made by either side to prevent this problem.

[Deborah Bourque]

We have been doing that. Our national union representative—

[Raymond Bonin, Liberal, Nickel Belt, ON]

Tell me so I can put it in their face.

[Deborah Bourque]

Well, it hasn't been me at the table on this. We have a national union representative who's responsible for health and safety. We have a transition committee that works on rural and suburban mail carrier issues. They've been really involved in working with Canada Post at the VP level and at the health and safety rep level at the national joint health and safety committee. They've been working with Canada Post to try to resolve this problem. We've made proposals on how to involve the local joint health and safety committees in this problem, where we would develop a speedy way of dealing with concerns.

We've just negotiated a tentative agreement with Canada Post in the first reopener on the RSMC collective agreement. That involves a work measurement system that will study each and every function on each and every route in structuring the days properly. That has to be done anyway. Every single route across the country is going to have to be looked at. So I would argue that as we're looking at that route and trying to identify the amount of time it takes to deliver that route, we would also look at and identify the health and safety concerns and the problem areas. There are lots of ways for us to work together to resolve this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mrs. Thibault.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I will now come to my second point. It will be very brief.

People can look at the committees' Web site and see that on June 1st, at the Standing committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, Mrs. Greene, in answer to a question relating to a reorganization plan and a new strategy, stated that some studies had been made by an independent company called IBM. In your introduction, you stated that there did not seem to be many consultations between the CEO, management and the union. Mrs. Greene said that the studies were being done by an independent firm called IBM. Have you been made aware of those studies so that, when operational decisions are made, you would know the reasons why they were made? Were you made aware of those studies in the past but not anymore?

[Deborah Bourque]

We haven't been provided with this IBM study. I don't think there's a consistent approach to providing the union with studies. Sometimes we get them and sometimes we don't.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Those were done to study the level of service and to know if it was achieved. That's very important. When I was a manager, in my previous life, I wanted to know those things. My counterpart had to be informed if I wanted to tell him that we wanted to improve the level of service and if I believed that our workers, unionized or not, were not performing well enough. So, you're not aware of those.

At the same committee meeting, there was another very relevant question relating to equal treatment at the Quebec City sorting plant. Someone asked Mrs. Greene if she thought that there should be fairness of treatment between all the regions, whether they be the Maritimes, the West, Quebec or Ontario. Mrs. Greene answered that equal treatment had nothing to do with managing an organization such as Canada Post. What's your opinion? Do you think it's an important criterion that should be taken into account? Your answer can be very short. I don't need a long answer.

[Deborah Bourque]

Yes, I think fairness and equality are important principles, and I would argue they are part of what the universal service obligation speaks to—equality of service, no matter where you live, whether in a rural or urban community.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

In one of the documents we've been provided, I read that on February 1st--and I had already read that in the papers--Canada Post violated clause 29 of the collective agreement--that was an arbitration judgment by Mr. Dulude. Then, a judicial review was requested. Has that been done and, if so, do we know the result?

[Deborah Bourque]

You're speaking about arbitrator Dulude's arbitration decision. Canada Post has appealed that, or has sought judicial review of that decision.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

it's not been done yet? There's been no decision on appeal?

[Deborah Bourque]

No, there have been hearings.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

How long will it take?

[Deborah Bourque]

It depends on the complexity of the arguments and the amount of evidence. So I'm not sure how long that judicial review would take.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

That's all for now, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Warkentin.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Thank you very much, Madam Chairperson.

Thank you for coming in today. I appreciate, obviously, that you are on the hot seat and that you're coming up, so far, with most of the answers to our questions.

I just want to carry on from Mr. Bonin. He had a number of questions that he asked, but his final question, basically, was what is the union doing to ensure that in the future our postal workers can continue to do their jobs well and that they won't continually come back with the same issues? I live in a rural community. I represent a large rural population in my constituency, and I would suggest that over 50% of the mail delivered there is by rural carriers. In a number of places, we have seen these centralized boxes or pavilions being put into place to have communities come and collect their mail.

You talked at some length about the necessity of ensuring a safe workplace. I would just suggest—and I'm wondering what the union's position is on this—that I can't foresee a time when we will ensure that every rural postal box is a safe situation. Obviously we have changing weather patterns; on a daily basis these conditions can change very rapidly. We have road conditions, especially in the winter, that can change, and certainly from the union's position.... My question would be, is the union prepared to go to centralized mail delivery for all rural communities, if that's what is necessary to ensure safety, or are we going to work with the understanding that there's going to be reasonable risk in the future, especially in rural communities, and that it's going to continue forever? It's never going to change; we're always going to have icy roads and we're always going to have snowbanks piled up against certain postal boxes, causing ongoing problems.

I'm wondering if the union has a long-term position to ensure, number one, that we don't have to move to these centralized postal boxes, or, number two, does it have a plan to push to ensure that all rural communities are served by these centralized postal boxes?

[Deborah Bourque]

Well, I'm quite proud of my union's record for the past 25 years of fighting to defend rural delivery, both delivery to rural mailboxes and the maintenance of post offices in rural communities. We've been pretty consistent on that for the last couple of decades, and my union would oppose vigorously any attempt by Canada Post to put rural delivery into community mailboxes.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

It seems as though there's a contradiction under these unsafe situations that can arise at any point. I'm just wondering, in the end, how the union will rule. Will they say they will now move towards these centralized mailboxes, or—

[Deborah Bourque]

No, because we don't think it's necessary.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Well, I would suggest that at some point.... I think we're just at the tip of the iceberg; I think we're just now seeing these postal workers feeling they are not safe, but I don't think the conditions have become any more unsafe over the years. I think what's happening is that there's just a realization that this work environment maybe isn't comfortable to the people who are now taking these positions. I wouldn't suggest that rural roads have become any more treacherous; I would suggest that in fact they have become more safe, and I actually think that postal boxes have become more accessible—at least in my community. What is being complained about now was never complained about in the past.

I'm wondering, as we approach winter, if my communities are all of a sudden going to experience major delays. Maybe we're just going to have all of the rural communities shut down for the whole winter and we'll bring it up in the spring again.

[Deborah Bourque]

With all due respect, that's simply absurd. We're not arguing that every rural route is unsafe or that even every home on particular routes is unsafe.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

I understand that, but I guess--

[Deborah Bourque]

Labour Canada doesn't rule on comfort issues; Labour Canada rules on whether or not the worker is unsafe.