Government Operations Committee on Feb. 28th, 2008

[Dimitri Soudas]

I'm not sure how many meetings there were on this file, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

There were a number of them.

[Dimitri Soudas]

I gather you are asking me a question. I was not present at three meetings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

I heard three meetings at one point. I don't know. I'm starting to wonder.

We will go with Mr. Moore.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm splitting my time with Patrick Brown, but I just wanted to wrap up with regard to Rosdev, because it's in the public interest here in terms of the litigation and all that.

Rosdev is in a number of deep legal disputes with the federal government, with millions of dollars at stake in this litigation.

Mr. Rosenberg, you've said you've never met with Minister Michael Fortier. You never met with Minister Fortier's former or current chiefs of staff. You never met Dimitri Soudas. You never met Mr. Housakos. You did meet previous Liberal ministers of Public Works during your litigation, which is highly irregular, and you did meet with previous Liberal ministers of Public Works, whom you paid to get access to those meetings, and while you were there, donating to the Liberal Party, paying to have access to these Liberal Public Works ministers, you were at the same time negotiating settlement of your multi-million-dollar lawsuits with the Department of Public Works. Isn't that a little dodgy?

[Michael Rosenberg]

I did not negotiate with ministers—

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

But you were hoping to.

[Michael Rosenberg]

—but with the department, yes. We made proposals, based on their asking us to do that.

Unfortunately, they just sent us back letters—and not even from themselves sometimes, but from a secretary, who would say, thank you for your unsolicited offer.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I can understand the desire for a settlement, but you can also understand the public interest here. While your legal team was pushing for a settlement with the Department of Public Works, you were paying thousands of dollars and meeting with Public Works ministers at Liberal fundraisers at the top, while your lawyers were negotiating with those ministers, as departments, for settlements constituting millions of dollars in possible benefits to your company.

Don't you think that's just a little sketchy?

[Michael Rosenberg]

Well, the benefit is to both sides, to our company, and.... A good settlement is beneficial to both sides and is better than going to court. Everybody would have benefited if we had settled. It's not unheard of when something is going to court that you sit down to try to make a settlement. Some settlements are done in the court house; business people know that. It would be to everybody's beneficial interest to settle this.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Yes, and some settlements are done through political pressure as well.

[Michael Rosenberg]

We did not put any pressure...or we did not mandate.... We tried to use a normal business course to see if we could come to any settlement and sit down around the table. Unfortunately, they wouldn't even meet with me sometimes.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

I have some quick questions, but I know the time is limited.

We've heard reference from opposition MPs about meetings being organized, and they say so as if these are a big deal.

I want to ask you, Dimitri, have any opposition MPs asked you to look into files? Has an opposition MP ever asked you, in your capacity working for the Prime Minister, to look into a file?

[Dimitri Soudas]

Yes, it has occurred, and I find that quite normal.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

It's odd they want to talk about this but have never asked us to investigate the files they want us to look into.

If I could I ask a quick question to Mr. Rosenberg regarding the letter we were referencing about this mutually advantageous relationship with Mr. Brison of the Liberal Party, I notice that the letter Mr. Brison wrote to you was on August 18, 2006. This was in the middle of the Liberal leadership race, after he had finished in his capacity as Minister of Public Works. He was referencing the fact that you had worked with the government for 15 years.

I'm curious, have you ever had a minister contact you with information that he would have had in his capacity as Minister of Public Works but was already finished in that capacity? Was he making fundraising donations during the Liberal leadership as well?

[Michael Rosenberg]

Well, the letter I think was not more than a congratulatory letter saying it was the 15th anniversary of our serving the public, the government, as a landlord. It was a congratulatory letter. We had many other congratulatory letters from other people. It's very common. Leaders and potential leaders come from different parties.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Were you surprised, though, that he kept information on government leases even when he was finished in his capacity as minister?

[Michael Rosenberg]

I don't think he went into particulars in the letter. He just congratulated us on our 15th anniversary of service. He knew that we had done a decent job.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

During the Liberal leadership, did he solicit funds?

[Michael Rosenberg]

As ongoing parties, everybody solicits funds—every party.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Which means, I guess, that he did, which is why I understand he makes the reference “mutually advantageous”.

It's funny that a Liberal scandal is a scandal when preferential treatment was not given. It's certainly contradictory to suggest there is anything appropriate when you're actually in a legal dispute that's ongoing. It reminds me of the Liberal scandal—

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Brown, your time is up.

[Michael Rosenberg]

Well, I can assure you—

[Diane Marleau, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

We'll go with Madame Folco.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Soudas, did you lobby on behalf of one of the candidates in the running to manage the Port of Montreal?