Government Operations Committee on Feb. 28th, 2008

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Are you aware that Mr. Housakos is a lobbyist and Conservative activist?

[Michael Fortier]

I'm not aware that he is a lobbyist. As for him being a Conservative activist, I have met him before at party functions, but that was some time ago.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

For your information, Mr. Housakos is heavily involved with the Conservative party in Laval, the riding that I represent in Parliament. He was involved with the Conservative Party when you were running as a candidate.

[Michael Fortier]

He was a member of the Canadian Alliance party at the time.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you. I have no further questions, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Ms. Faille.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Mr. Fortier, can you tell us if, after the August 2, 2006 meeting, additional meetings were held, with Rosdev in particular, to discuss federal buildings?

[Michael Fortier]

Meetings between whom exactly?

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I'm sorry, between the PMO and yourself.

[Michael Fortier]

There were never any meetings between myself and the PMO.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Were you ever present at a meeting attended by one of the witnesses called to testify here this morning?

[Michael Fortier]

One of these witnesses is my chief of staff. It would be cause for concern if I had never met him. So then, apart from my chief of staff, I would have to answer no, I have never met with the four other witnesses.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Not with Mr. Lemieux, or with... Fine then.

As I said, the purpose of today's meeting is to shed some light on this whole affair. Perhaps I'm imagining things, but I find that many meetings have taken place since the early summer of 2006. We know that there have been several meetings, as well as numerous telephone calls.

Is it customary for the PMO and the office of the Minister of Public Works to schedule this many meetings before having officials intervene?

[Michael Fortier]

You are asking if this is customary, Ms. Faille, but as you know, when I inherited this file on February 6, 2006, it was already before the courts, and it is still before the courts today. My chief of staff met with Mr. Soudas in August 2006. Obviously, the deputy minister, his team and I discussed this matter on several occasions following that initial meeting, but never in the presence of anyone from the PMO.

[Meili Faille, Bloc, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I see. I would like to split my time with my colleague who has worked more on this property file.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Ms. Bourgeois

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Good day, Mr. Fortier.

I have to admit that I'm learning a lot about your relations with the PMO as a review this matter. It makes me realize that you might be under pressure from all sides. As a result, I'm even more sympathetic to your plight, even if our relations haven't always been very gracious. I know it's unpleasant to be pressured in this manner and to try and resist. It is very clear to us that your office was pressured into trying to settle the Rosdev case.

You appeared before this committee when it looked into the sale of seven buildings and on numerous occasions, you were questioned about the sale and lease back or sale of these buildings. We maintained that it wasn't clear if this arrangement benefited the government and taxpayers.

Why is it that you never mentioned to us the legal proceedings against Rosdev and everything else surrounding this affair?

[Michael Fortier]

There was a good reason for that. The information was not relevant. Currently, we lease two buildings. I imagine that you are very familiar with the dispute and that you have read up on this case. The buildings that were sold that summer belonged to the government. Therefore, there was no point talking about buildings that did not belong to us. I didn't see how a legal dispute between a tenant and an owner was relevant to the sale of these buildings.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

In the case of sales and lease back arrangements, the fact remains that the government is the tenant and may encounter the same problem that you are having with the Rosdev Group. The government's new landlord is Larco Investments.

Is there any danger that we might encounter the same problems with Larco Investments that we have had with the Rosdev Group?

[Michael Fortier]

From that perspective, we mustn't be afraid of being afraid, Ms. Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

It's normal to have some concerns.

[Michael Fortier]

We mustn't be afraid of being afraid. In the matter under review this morning, the government leases quite a large number of buildings. The Rosdev Group owns two buildings, or a small percentage of the leasing portfolio. Disputes have arisen with very few of our landlords. We are on good terms with our landlords, and we have an excellent relationship with Larco Investments.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

It would have been nice to know that, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you, Ms. Bourgeois.

Monsieur Kramp.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Welcome, Minister.

Are you planning on running in the next election, Minister?