Government Operations Committee on May 6th, 2008

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

I remember that when this committee touched upon this topic before, one thing that was expressed to us was that there seemed to be a smaller turnover rate in small towns and rural areas. Is that your impression as well?

[Lysanne Gauvin]

I'd say that it depends on where you are, honestly. We have offices like the one in Halifax, which is a fair-sized city, where there's a high level of stability. Then we have offices, such as the one in Charlottetown, which is one of our smaller locations, and again it has a high level of stability.

I think it's very much driven by the opportunities and what's going on in the environment in that location. We've had instances, such as in our downtown Toronto office, at some points in time, when we've had high turnover rates in some areas, and then it stabilizes for a variety of reasons.

I don't know that I'd want to say that it's strictly linked to being in a big city versus a small location, because we have an office in Winnipeg, a large city, that is very stable.

[Patrick Brown, Conservative, Barrie, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you.

Madame Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

I have two quick questions and a short comment.

Ms. Gauvin, in Quebec, there are offices in Shawinigan and in Lac-Saint-Jean; you mentioned them earlier. Are those jobs protected?

[Lysanne Gauvin]

The full-time employees currently have a great deal of work. For the time being, we don't see anything that might have a negative impact on full-time employees. The agency continues to come up with ways of increasing the work for the tax centres, given their capacity.

The tax centres have changed considerably over the past 10 to 12 years. In the past, they processed only T1 and T2 data. The situation has changed considerably over the last 15 years, to such an extent that a greater portion of the work now requires employees year round. The changes are occurring slowly, from year to year.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

I would like to go back to a question I asked you earlier that dealt with the agency's network of offices and facilities throughout Canada. You have a host of offices, and your operating costs must be staggering.

[Lysanne Gauvin]

Between 75% and 80% of the agency's budget is earmarked for salaries. Operating and maintenance costs represent a small portion of the agency's total budget.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

It is normal for 65% to 75% of a department's total budget to be set aside for salaries. I am asking you the question because several witnesses have told us that if a department were to limit its activities in an area, it would be to streamline its operating costs.

But it seems to be the opposite for you. You are providing a service Canada-wide and you must manage several offices. You use perhaps 18% or 20% of your budgetary envelope to cover operating expenses. We are not saying it is too much. I would like you to say a few words about that. How do you that?

[Lysanne Gauvin]

That issue does not influence us one way or another.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Are your costs a problem?

[Lysanne Gauvin]

No. Our employees work in offices. But many of them are on the road or use a company space when they do their audits.

We do of course have to maintain the office, but as far as I can recall, that problem has not been raised at the agency.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

I want to make an observation.

I was unable to file my income tax return, because I have a secure device. I went to your site, but nowhere did it say, before I filled out my application, that I would be wasting my time if I had a secure device.

[Lysanne Gauvin]

We will make note of that and report it.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Please do, as it is very unpleasant and frustrating. Fortunately, you extended the deadline for income tax returns, something Quebec did not do.

[Lysanne Gauvin]

It is too late for this fiscal year, but we will make note of it for next year.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you, Ms. Bourgeois.

We will conclude with Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you very much. I only have a couple of wrap-up questions.

As I said earlier, the problem resolution team in Sudbury does excellent work for our region. I'm wondering, though, if there have ever been discussions between CRA and HRSDC about putting a few employees into the Service Canada locations, where people come in and have all kinds of problems.

[Lysanne Gauvin]

I have no knowledge of that. I can't help you out. We can bring the question back and try to find the information for you, but I'm not in a position to answer that question. I'm sorry.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

I have a second question. This study was begun because we were seeing very high and sometimes disturbingly high levels of turnover in various departments. We've been asking questions about why that is happening, where it is happening, and where the people are going. Most of the time we haven't had a very clear answer, and yet we're seeing from the presentation this morning a very stable workforce, a very clear understanding of why and how you've been able to retain it.

I'm looking at some of the comments you made to Madame Bourgeois about the stability in the workforce, the investment in the employees, the career opportunities, the flexibility for those employees. Is there any exchange of best practices between various departments? Or does this exist within your silo and it works well, but other departments can carry on in whatever way?

[Lysanne Gauvin]

No. We exchange information and best practices and issues that we're facing, looking for suggestions from other organizations. There are a number of formal and informal forums where that occurs. Sometimes we go out looking for information and sometimes organizations, other OGDs, other government departments, come to us. I would caution, though, that what works in one organization is not necessarily always transportable to another organization.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Gauvin, thank you very much.

Mr. Bourget, you did not get many questions, but it was important for us that you be here.

Have the other departments come to see you to ask how you have managed to set up offices everywhere? They should do so.

[Lysanne Gauvin]

Not to my knowledge.