Evidence of meeting #3 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was meeting.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:45 p.m.
Bloc
Robert Bouchard Bloc Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC
Yes, I can even provide the clerk with his coordinates and tell him how to reach him.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
If we could deal with the tendering process and how to encourage small companies, this would be a good thing.
Mr. Moore.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
There seems to be general unanimity here. I don't think we need to belabour this too much. Minister Fortier will be here on December 5. That's confirmed.
The larger addendum that I'd make to this is on the proposal for meeting 5, on December 10. Those new regulations are just coming in. It would probably be more effective to do that when we come back in January, if that's all right, if you want to free up a day.
3:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
That's fine. We just pencilled in stuff. There's no real need to do that on that date.
You're right. If they're just starting, we're better to have them in place so we can actually speak to what they're doing.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
Right, so then I would suggest that we not scratch that but just move it back to January.
3:45 p.m.
Conservative
James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC
Yes, because it will be more effective at that time.
So we could free up a day there. We already have the Auditor General coming. We can do a number of other things.
Anyhow, I think the staff has done a good job here taking the suggestions and I don't think we need to go on much further.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
When it comes to accrual accounting, I was saying to the analysts here that there's an ad hoc committee meeting. I think it's on November 28. Mr. Kramp and I are meeting with them. But once we know a bit more where it's going, we'll ask them to come and make a presentation, whether it be before Christmas or after. We'll have to see what they're bringing forward.
Mr. Kramp.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
As a suggestion, on that point, we've heard from Treasury Board as to what their thoughts and plans are as far as following the recommendations of both the public accounts committee and the government operations committee and their implementation process is concerned. We've heard about some of the suggestions and we're incorporating some thoughts on it ourselves.
I think our ad hoc committee could probably just very briefly make a report to this committee, but in order to do it justice, we should have a meeting or two of this committee where Treasury Board officials could come and not rehash the entire thing that the ad hoc committees went through, but give at least a more complete explanation of the direction they think would be preferable. Hopefully, it would be complementary to the thoughts of the ad hoc committee to start with, but if it's not, then so be it.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
Yes. We could call Treasury Board in for a meeting or two, whatever would be necessary for that.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
That's right, but we'll have a better idea after, is it next Wednesday's meeting—
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
—with the ad hoc committee?
Daryl and I and a couple of others are on that committee, and we've been meeting. It gets a little complicated and boring for many.
Mr. Warkentin.
3:50 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
I was just going to suggest that if we do have a date that becomes available before Christmas, it would be good to get on with some of the suggestions we've made in terms of just beginning to look into the 40% turnover. I think it would be helpful if we could get a panel of different union representatives, maybe a private sector or a third party, and then maybe somebody internal to maybe consider what parameters we might even want to look into for a future study on this particular issue.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
Maybe we could have a full meeting on that issue on December 10, rather than on the procurement ombudsman and put that off—
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
Then we can have time to get witnesses in.
The challenge with that is that it's a problem within government more than it is outside, and it will be difficult to get a handle on it. According to Madame Barrados, the public service didn't grow that much; it's more of a turnover within the public service. So that's more difficult to get a handle on.
Mr. Angus.
3:50 p.m.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Just to throw into the mix—and again, we don't have to have all this hammered out for a meeting—if we're looking at terms and a vision on this, I'd like to get a sense also, are we seeing extreme turnovers in certain areas of the country as compared to others?
My gut feeling tells me that when you have federal government buildings in the regions, you have very low turnover and you have a very stable workforce. So, again, we might be able to make recommendations. Are we putting more resources into areas where we train people up and they're spinning and moving all the time and we're always throwing more money at it, as opposed to other operations in various parts of the country where it might be very stable and they're actually much more effective?
So that would be a good piece of the puzzle to have a handle on.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
I can tell you for a fact that when we had Passport Canada officials, they opened and expanded a call centre in the city of Montreal with another 500 employees there. These are probably areas where there are lots of jobs, so it's easy to move from one job to the other—you're right.
I think you're seeing the same thing here in Ottawa, an expansion in certain areas, and people come in and then they go to other jobs because they're there and they're better.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
PSAC could tell us that, but I don't know who really could give us the answers on that. I think it's a systematic problem, and maybe, overall, Treasury Board should look at that for the future. Who knows?
We would like to have Treasury Board on Monday coming. If we can't get the minister, can we at least get officials from Treasury Board on the estimates? If I could ask, would somebody be willing to put forward a motion that we pressure Treasury Board to start this Monday? Time is a-wasting and we're not going anywhere fast.
Mr. Warkentin.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
We absolutely need Treasury Board to come here. It would be nice if the minister could come along. Is there any possibility that we could have the Auditor General come to this first meeting, if the minister and Treasury Board aren't? Does it make a difference to Treasury Board folks if they come the following meeting?
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
Let's see what the clerk can do. I think what's important is that we start doing our work as quickly as possible. This is basically the first week, and we're—
3:55 p.m.
Conservative