Government Operations Committee on May 29th, 2008

[Eric Wildhaber]

In terms of procurement, there's also the ability at the World Trade Organization for there to be certain discussions on procurement issues. But this is really within Canada.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

I think my colleague Mark Holland wants to have two more seconds.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

You might want to wait till the next turn, because there's very little time left.

[Mario Silva, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

He'll be very short.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I just have one question, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Very short.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I'm just wondering if you can tell me if, in those 300-and-some-odd cases you've had over a five-year period of time, there are certain types of issues you're dealing with repetitively. Are there certain areas that are more problematic, or certain complaints coming from certain departments more prevalently than others?

[André F. Scott]

Complaints very often deal with suppliers who have been excluded based on criteria the complainant doesn't agree with: contradictory terms in the call for tenders; ambiguous language; specifications that were over-restrictive or biased towards a certain or specific product; insufficient time to bid, or failure to grant a time extension when one was justified; a bidder being permitted to effectively modify their proposal after the deadline for receipt of proposals had passed; improper clarification processes; unsuccessful bidders not being provided adequate debriefings; and improper application of limited tendering, or sole-sourcing—though this is less frequent now.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Madam Chair, this is it.

Was there a particular department—

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Holland!

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

—with a preponderance of complaints, or was it limited?

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Holland, you'll have to ask that the next time around, okay?

Thank you.

Madame Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

I would like to congratulate you on your almost perfect French, Mr. Scott. I cannot judge your English, but I can say that your French is excellent.

[André F. Scott]

Thank you.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Your appearance here is very important, because you work in three distinct areas. Two of these areas can be looked at together: The Agreement on Internal Trade, at the federal and provincial levels, and the Agreement on Government Procurement. I think it is important to look them together. As I proceed with my questions, you will see what I am getting at.

There are no fees to file a complaint. You mean that there are no fees charged by you.

[André F. Scott]

That is correct.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

But a person who comes forward with a complaint might need the services of a lawyer or someone from the outside.

[André F. Scott]

I included in your briefing book a copy of the complaint form to show you how easy it is. A complainant may decide to hire counsel, but in a number of the cases we deal with, there is no legal counsel involved. Often the amount of money spent to respond to the call for tenders may cause people to spend more to retain legal counsel. However, given the way we work, complaints can easy be filed without recourse to a lawyer.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

The reason I asked the question is that I tabled Bill C-411 this year. It has to do with antidumping measures that would allow the International Trade Tribunal to exercise a little more power. The fact is that on several occasions the current government has swept aside your international trade decisions.

[André F. Scott]

We are not talking about bids. I just want to be sure I understand.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

I just want to draw a parallel. Company representatives appearing before the tribunal are nervous and do not know how things will work. A number of them have had to pay some rather substantial fees. You say you pay between $1,000 and $4,000 in compensation...

[André F. Scott]

It is not compensation. As with other courts, the losing party has to pay the costs of the other party. The maximum we have awarded was $4,100.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Based on your experience, would you say that this is enough for someone from a small business who hired a lawyer?

[André F. Scott]

In the case of people who do not hire legal counsel, it depends on how much time they spend on their complaint. We are talking here about filling in a form, as you saw. The individual states the reasons for the complaint based on non-compliance with the criteria. The complaint is then referred to the tribunal. As I said in my remarks, very few hearings are public. Most cases are dealt with on paper. Is that adequate? You are asking me to make a value judgment, and that is rather difficult for me to do.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

The fact remains that if an invitation to tender is badly worded, for example, people who have dealt with you may feel that their rights have been violated. In such cases, if people hire the services of a lawyer, the cost can be $10,000 or $12,000.