Evidence of meeting #31 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was complaints.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to thank our witnesses for being here today.
After having heard the procurement ombudsman on Tuesday and you today, I'm certainly finally up about 2% in my understanding of the procurement process. It's much clearer. Thank you. I was at zero before.
I just wanted to ask a couple of questions related to your statement. First, on page 2 you mention the fact that there are no fees and that there is no requirement for legal counsel.
I needed to step out for a few minutes earlier, so you may have answered this question. I just want to verify that even a very small business that has a complaint could access your services without undue cost, other than the time it would take to fill out the forms and that sort of thing.
Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal
Exactly. That's why I qualified the tribunal as being user-friendly, because there is no filing fee and there is no requirement to have counsel.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
That's the same as for the procurement ombudsman.
On page 4 you talk about the fact that you do not examine complaints about contract administration, nor do you conduct general practice reviews.
It was my understanding, on Tuesday, when the procurement ombudsman was here, that he actually has, or his office has, the authority to go into contracts that are over $25,000 to deal with that part of the complaint. Is that accurate?
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
So in a way, that really does underline the fact that you're complementary.
Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal
That's why I made the statement that we are complementary, and that's why I wanted to underline where we have limits and where he doesn't.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
You mentioned that one of the highest criteria for a complaint was overly restrictive specifications. If a complaint was raised on that basis and the complaint came to you and it was on a very technical matter, how would you, amongst your tribunal, have the expertise to decide whether those specifications were in fact overly restrictive or whether it was actually pretty necessary for the unique characteristic of that particular procurement? I'm just wondering how that works out. Do you access outside expert help or consultants?
Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal
We can. We are allowed to do so, and we have budgets to do so.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
In terms of the safety issue, my concern is that the tribunal might say the specs are overly restrictive, and ten years later it is found that the specs were there for a reason because of structural integrity or something.
Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal
But you must understand that the department, in its response to the complaint, has to address the issues raised by the complainant and therefore must justify that overly restrictive aspect.
Director of Procurement Review, Canadian International Trade Tribunal
The complainant must also demonstrate the opposite.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
But in most cases, you come to an agreement that the specs need to be altered minimally or they're valid the way they are. I know you can't go—
Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal
I can't comment on that, sorry.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
You did mention that there were up to six appeals in the last five years. I don't care if the number is four or six. My question is, to whom do they appeal?
Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal
The Federal Court of Appeal.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
So they'd go to the Federal Court, and then the costly part would kick in.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
In your report, you say a number of the cases are simply dismissed. How do you get back to a complainant and say, “Sorry, but your...”?
Chairman, Canadian International Trade Tribunal
They're dismissed with reasons.
Conservative
Harold Albrecht Conservative Kitchener—Conestoga, ON
It's with reasons.
Those are my questions, Madam Chair. Thank you very much.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
Thank you very much.
Mr. Kramp, do you want something else? No?
Mr. Warkentin, do you have any questions?
