Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'm very pleased to follow up on my colleague, who said there was a lot of testimony on the record. I think that's where we begin to see how this case is not really passing the smell test.
This was a very controversial contract. It was commented on many times in the media whether or not there was direct interference or the possible appearance of interference. It was really the role of the minister to lay down some clear public markers, because Mr. Fortier had financial connections to CGI, and some key people were involved, as you pointed out.
We had Mr. Fortier before the committee, and I would like to read his testimony from the record. Mr. Kramp definitely says that being on the record is important.
I asked Mr. Fortier a number of simple questions. I said, “So do you use fairness monitors in your internal reviews of how contracts are awarded?” He said, “In some cases.” I said, “What is the threshold for a fairness monitor? A $400 million contract doesn't warrant one?” He said, “Not necessarily, no.”
Then I said, “...you have a $400 million contract that drew public allegations, and you don't have any kind of fairness monitor system in place. No offence, Mr. Fortier, but I think that's incredibly lax.” He said, “Absolutely not. We have fairness monitors when the situation warrants.”
I said, “So is it a personal choice? At what point do you include a fairness monitor?” He said, “It depends on the situation.”
We were taking the minister at his word, because I can't see why the minister would come to this committee and either not know his facts or misrepresent them. Yet when I looked at the guidelines for a fairness monitor, it said that fairness monitors must be considered for all procurements over $250 million. That wasn't an option, so Mr. Fortier misrepresented or did not know the facts on the fairness monitor. I think that's a key issue.
I had the opportunity on May 27 to ask Mr. Shahid Minto a question. He's our new procurement ombudsman and was the chief risk officer for Public Works. He said he had been involved in the establishment of the fairness monitor, so I asked him if the fairness monitor was optional. He said no. He said if the department decides not to use it, there had better be a very clear reason.
We didn't hear that reason from Mr. Fortier. He seems to believe he has the right and the power as minister to override the fairness monitor whenever he chooses. Where do you feel that puts you, having assumed that in a contract of this size a fairness monitor should have been in place?