Evidence of meeting #1 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
Mr. McTeague pointed out that eliminating those two first-round slots will involve about 16 minutes.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
I think we have reached an agreement here. I will point out that there is a discretionary element wedged in at the front, but your chair will certainly want to follow the rules.
I'll note that Mr. Martin isn't actually here right now, so in the event he wants to bring this back at another time, I hope members will be prepared to hear him.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
I'll just make sure the clerk has it accurately.
Do you want to read it?
The Clerk
The motion goes as follows: that witnesses be given five to ten minutes to make their opening statement; that at the discretion of the chair, during the questioning of witnesses there be allocated eight minutes for the first questioner of each party, including the responses of the witnesses as follows: Liberal Party, Bloc Québécois, Conservative Party, and New Democratic Party, and that thereafter five minutes, including the responses of witnesses, be allocated to each party as follows: Liberal Party, Bloc Québécois, Conservative Party, Liberal Party, Conservative Party, Bloc Québécois, New Democratic Party, Conservative Party, Liberal Party, Conservative Party, Liberal Party, Conservative Party.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
As I mentioned earlier, I'd like to take a few minutes to look at future business. The reason I want to do this--and we'd have to do it pretty much unanimously--is that most committees take about three weeks to get up and running. That's always been a frustration. I think we can get up and running as soon as Thursday, or maybe next Tuesday, depending on what we think we might like to do, because there are some nationally important economic issues related to the current economic recession.
The supplementary estimates (B) have also been referred to the committee. They have been introduced in the House, and I'm advised that at some point the government and the opposition parties will want to sink their teeth into those in the House. These are estimates that would have been introduced in the House at the end of last year but were not because of the election and prorogation. So they're a little behind schedule, and there will be some quarters in government that would want to see that move ahead quickly.
I had hoped members would take an interest in the issue of stimulus spending, with reference to both the supplementary estimates and the budget as it was read in the House last week. I'm certainly in your hands. We're speaking of immediate future business and whether we can get something nailed down for Thursday.
I should point out that I've asked the clerk if he would ask Statistics Canada about the possibility of inputs for this week--including those from the Privy Council--on the issue of stimulus spending. These issues are in your hands. If we choose to go ahead, those institutions will at least have some notice.
Madame Bourgeois.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
Mr. Chair, before the last Parliament ended, we were studying a matter that the committee considered very important, the federal government's procurement process. If I recall correctly, we began the study partly as a result of the tabling of a report from the Auditor General of Canada. But it was also in the government's plans and priorities to be able to get a handle on and tighten up the federal government's procurement process.
I even submitted a motion about it to the clerk last week, though it may not have been in order at the time. But I know that he already has a motion in his hands. In it, I proposed that, after our committee had passed the supplementary estimates and done what it needs to do at the beginning, of course, we should continue our study of the federal government's procurement process as a matter of priority.
Secondly, I would very much like you to allow us to submit motions to our clerk dealing with other matters that we would like the committee to address.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
On your second point, Madame Bourgeois, were you referring to this 48-hour notice or were you referring to matters coming within the field of study?
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
No, I prepared a motion that I submitted to the clerk, perhaps a little too soon, so that we can study the process. In the previous Parliament, we had started to look at matters that we were not able to complete. I would like to bring them to your attention so that we can discuss them. Can we send this information to the clerk, as motions or as agenda items, to be considered again at the next meeting?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
Okay, this is what we'll do. You actually have a formal notice of motion here. We'll take that as notice. We don't have to debate or vote on it today, but I should ask the clerk to generate a document that will show us the work of the committee in session 39-2. Then we could reflect on that and, if so advised, bring forward the business unfinished by the committee for work here.
If you would generate that, it would be of help. Thank you.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
There are several things from the last Parliament that should at least be reviewed at this point. The issue of procurement was one of them. I think we will want to take a look at that.
We were also doing a review of the demographic challenges within the federal public service. It was related to the renewal process of the public service. Our committee identified that in many areas of the federal government, there was a 75% turnover rate within a single year within certain departments. If that is not an issue of efficiency, and if that is not an issue that should be looked at by somebody--especially during these times when we are going to see massive amounts of procurement and massive amounts of spending, and when only 25% of the people have a corporate memory that spans back even a year--we're going to run ourselves into some situations. Maybe it is time--and I recognize with the growing civil service that people are moving on and different things--that we want to get a handle on this. It might be an opportunity for us to have Ms. Barrados before our committee and get an update as to what has happened since the last time we spoke with her on this issue and what mechanisms they have put into place to resolve some of this.
Some of the greatest weaknesses for us as a government are these issues we have identified. We have the demographic challenges, but we also have this challenge of people who are leaving and vacating their spots. There is a lot of movement, which means there are a lot of challenges presented as a result of this movement and different things. I think we have a responsibility, in this committee, to get a handle on this.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
Mr. Anders had indicated a desire to speak to this. Is there anyone else?
Mr. Anders.
Conservative
Rob Anders Conservative Calgary West, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I come to this committee new. I'm sure that over the 12 years I have probably substituted for somebody on this committee, but I was not a regular member, so for me and for others who are new to the committee, I think that maybe an overview briefing with various departments and agencies that report--Privy Council Office, Public Works and Government Services Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat, the Public Service Commission--as well as maybe a specific briefing on the estimates process and government procurement might be in order. Our Bloc Québécois colleague has mentioned that.
Mr. Chair, I know you had an interest in a budgetary stimulus investigation, and I wonder whether or not that would fit in a review of management accountability framework.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
It might indeed. I should point out that staff indicates the Public Service Commission has publicly issued a report that deals at least in part with this turnover issue. That was last November, and there has been some informal indication of interest in taking the issue up with the committee. This has to do with public service staff.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
It would be wise to have her before the committee to guide us.
Liberal
Conservative
Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC
Thank you for giving me the floor, Mr. Chair.
I agree wholeheartedly with my colleague Mr. Anders. Before moving to one of the topics mentioned here or that could be brought forward later, I would like our officials to brief new members before we get involved in matters like demographic changes, for example. Then we would all be seeing the task in the same way. It would surely be good for us to remind ourselves of the decisions and the challenges.
Our committee has a good deal of responsibility. The responsibility extends to overseeing the accounts of new departments and organizations. In that context, it could be interesting.
I do not know whether you on the other side would like a briefing.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
It's certainly possible for members to arrange for briefings from departments. They would love to do it in twos, threes, and fours rather than ones. So in the event that briefings are coming up, there's no need to take up committee time to receive a briefing. It's a little like a seminar, and they're very useful to members. If members have arranged one, please let the clerk know. Other members may wish to attend or take advantage of that.
Madame Bourgeois.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
I would just like to say to Mr. Gourde that each department could well give a briefing, but we have our researchers too. When I started, I was very fortunate to be able to have them come to my office. They told me a little about how things worked. So many things go on here. At times, researchers can come to our offices to help. As the chair said, I would not look kindly on our committee spending its time on it. Unfortunately, we have to operate with old minutes, to do our own research and to use the services of our researchers.
I would like to continue with the matters on our plate. There was another matter that meant a huge amount of work for the committee in the previous session, accrual accounting. Our subcommittee worked on it. Treasury Board told us that, in the next session, we could ask how it was progressing towards setting up this famous accrual accounting. We even asked the Auditor General of Canada to come, since she has mentioned it in her reports for 10 years. It was extremely important because accrual accounting and strategic planning can go hand in hand. Mr. Chair, I think it is extremely important for us to look at it, especially since the committee has specifically asked to look at the finances a little more closely.
There is one last matter I would like to look at, building leases. This is linked to human resources too. In the last budget, the government dealt with building leases. I would like the committee to study it. Correct me if I am wrong, Mr. Clerk, but that was an important topic two sessions ago. When the government sold seven buildings, it took in $1.4 billion. Possibly the government—and when I say the government, I really mean officials—wants to sell more buildings. There are thirty or so that could be sold, I believe. It would be good to know if a planning process has been established for those buildings, how much we are intending to get for them, and so on. Researching buildings goes hand in hand with where to put our workers. That affects the matter Mr.Warkentin brought up and it is extremely important also.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
Chair, at the risk of sounding redundant--at some point I was in conversation on another matter of the committee--I want to make it abundantly clear that we probably have an interest in continuing where we left off. In that regard, I support the comments made by members who were here before. But it seems to me there should also be at least a broad outline of the more pressing business that will no doubt confront this committee in a matter of days. That will deal with the supplementary estimates from last year, because we did not sit, and issues we are going to be facing, as well as the question of disposition of stimulus, which I think will preoccupy much of the committee's work for at least the foreseeable future.
What I'd like to get from the chair, the clerk, and researchers is a broad outline of just how much time we'll be looking at to consider these two Herculean tasks that are going to beset us in the not-too-distant future.
