Government Operations Committee on March 12th, 2009

[Marilyn MacPherson]

--but there is also a review of cabinet confidences, a review of information or documents to determine whether or not they fall under section 69 of the act. That is the part that goes through legal counsel, and the documents are reviewed there. In the report he made specific reference to the cabinet confidence/counsel role in PCO.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Yes, he did, but in a separate part of his earlier departmental reports he also talked about increased delays because of an increased number in consultations. I thought those were somewhat different. It was a different department asking PCO.

[Marilyn MacPherson]

You're exactly right. So anything that has to do with cabinet confidences, the cabinet confidence organization...any ATIP organization in any department will forward documents there to have them reviewed to ensure that we are not letting information go that shouldn't.

There's also the process for consultations, and every department, if they have documents where there is another dep, then it would be likely that we would consult with DFAIT, maybe with CIDA, and maybe with DND.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Has there been any change in policy within the PCO over which areas should have more scrutiny, in terms of which may be more worrisome, in that sense, to disclose?

[Marilyn MacPherson]

No. As soon as anything is thought to be a cabinet confidence, it goes through exactly the same process. It's very rigorous.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Who actually makes that decision about who thinks it is a cabinet confidence?

[Marilyn MacPherson]

It comes to PCO and it is the cabinet confidence group inside of PCO that makes that determination.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

So there hasn't been a change in policy within that group?

[Marilyn MacPherson]

No.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you very much.

Do I still have time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

No.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

Mr. Calandra wants me to be real strict today.

Monsieur Roy for five minutes, and then over to Mr. Warkentin.

[Jean-Yves Roy, Bloc, Haute-Gaspésie—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. MacPherson, on page 5 of your statement, you say the following: "PCO will focus on internal renewal efforts and initiatives and the following plans to: ..." Then there's a totally incomprehensible phrase: "continuer d'offrir des services de certification à valeur ajoutée qui soient objectifs et indépendants;" Maybe it's not a good translation. For me, certification service is ISO 9001 or something like that. I don't understand what you mean.

[Marilyn MacPherson]

I apologize for the translation, or for the turn of phrase. What it's referring to is the new audit policy that has been put in by the Treasury Board ministers. What that refers to is that we are setting up our external audit committee, and we have set up an audit organization within the department. What that organization is expected to do is assurance audits to ensure and to be able to advise the clerk and the audit committee that management is being carried out inside of the department in an effective way. That's just a reference to the fact that we will be entering into an ongoing audit program where there will be a number of audits carried out year over year.

[Jean-Yves Roy, Bloc, Haute-Gaspésie—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

So it's really an audit program that doesn't have anything to do with certification. I really didn't understand what the Privy Council was doing in this area.

[Marilyn MacPherson]

Yes.

[Jean-Yves Roy, Bloc, Haute-Gaspésie—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

In your remarks, you talk about "strengthen[ing] the integration of human resources planning into business planning." If you want to strengthen the integration of human resources, it means you've identified a weakness. How can you further integrate human resources in business planning if, in the past, they were already participating? Did PCO have trouble participating in the planning of work?

[Marilyn MacPherson]

What that relates to is that in 2007 we launched in PCO our first strategic HR plan. There had not been one before. In that plan we did a number of focus groups with managers and staff to try to determine what we could do to improve both the workforce and the workplace, for the employees and also for the operation of the organization. At the same time, it became obvious that we needed to do better planning.

We are in the same position as every other department: we need to recruit very talented people, we need to retain them, and we need to ensure that they have proper training and development. So we launched into this strategic HR plan. It is for three years, and we have a number of initiatives under way, particularly to improve our recruitment and retention of staff.

We also realized that you need to tie your human resources planning with your business planning, so in accordance with the direction we were given in the last fiscal year by the Clerk of the Privy Council in his report, every department was required to do an integrated business plan that included emphasis on HR. We have done that. It certainly wasn't perfect, but we continue to strive to make the connections between our HR planning and our business plans to ensure that what we have in our business plans is clearly related to the priorities in our report on plans and priorities and also takes into account the areas of risk that we identify when we do our annual risk profile. It's all about instituting, inside the organization, a better management framework for the full purpose of ensuring that we have the very best workforce we can possibly have in support of the Prime Minister and the government.

[Jean-Yves Roy, Bloc, Haute-Gaspésie—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

That answers my question.

I'd like to come back to support for government management and accountability. You said that PCO will support the renewal of the Public Service of Canada. Is that really its role? Isn't it more the responsibility of the Public Service Commission or another department? Do you simply want to play a monitoring role or do you intervene directly within departments with a view to the efficient renewal of the public service? Do you ask for reports from each of the departments? Do you require a specific performance from them? Your statement isn't clear in this regard.

[Marilyn MacPherson]

First of all, the clerk is the head of the public service. In that role, from the point of view of giving direction on a government-wide basis, he issues an annual report every year. In his reports he has outlined an action plan, with expectations for all departments. As I just mentioned, for example, there was an expectation that every department would do an integrated business plan. There are also other requirements, which he has put into his document. It is a general direction that goes out from the clerk to all of the deputies to assist with the renewal of the public service.

We also have, as I mentioned before, a secretariat that is devoted to the support of public service renewal. Just recently, a portion of the former Canada Public Service Agency moved into the PCO. That organization is specifically tasked with the collective management of the assistant deputy minister population. They were already responsible for deputy ministers. They are to try to provide a more collective and organized approach to talent management, for example, at the ADM level. So while we're not an operational department, we have taken a leadership role, generally speaking, across the government and also more specifically for the more senior levels.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

Thank you, Mr. Roy.

Just before I turn to Mr. Warkentin, I want to clear up the issue of the ways and means motion that reflected the home renovation tax credit. I'm advised by Ms. Scratch, our analyst, that there is a second ways and means motion and a second notice of motion. I'm looking at the one that's in the budget documents. Your chair spent much too long on that one-inch-thick ways and means motion last night trying to find it. It's actually in a second ways and means motion.

I'm sure, Mr. Martin, you'll be able to find a copy of it—Ms. Scratch will be able to find it. I haven't actually managed to have the benefit of having it before my own eyes yet, but I'm looking forward to it.

I'll turn to Mr. Warkentin, for five minutes.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Thank you, Chair, for the opportunity.

Thank you for coming before us this morning. We appreciate your testimony and your interaction with us.

I'm going to leave the estimates, because I think we probably have heard where all the money is going, and we appreciate the fact that you're wise managers of that. But since we've got you here, I thought it would be an important thing for us to consider whether in fact you as a department or as an organization are receiving enough money or resources when it comes to the access to information requests you receive.

Coming out of the Accountability Act, there was an increase in numbers of places and organizations where people could access information, where they could request information. Has that increased the workload for PCO, in terms of the requests that would be coming from other departments and as they may relate to cabinet confidences?

[Marilyn MacPherson]

Not that I'm aware of. I think most of our consultations are still with the line departments, not with the new players that have come under the ATIP.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Okay. But you are seeing a steady increase, in terms of the number of requests?